i was reading the shadow rising and.....

[Judas]

ok in the shadow rising, pg: 461 about the tower of genjei, and brigton shows up and stats talkin about the snakes and foxes board game, and i thought, man, the people on the other side of the terangreal dorway look alot like snakes and foxes! that is why they said "no iron, or lamps, or instroments of music. courage to strengthen, fire to blind, music to daze and iron to bind! the terangreal doorways are doorway's to aelfinn and eelfinn. it may not be relevent, or important, and someone else may have thought of it first, but, it just came to me! oh well, carry on.

[GWINNA]

beleive it or not your not the first one to come up with that theory and most of us pretty much accept that as true. Also we have found corrolations between that and Moraines Rescue and other theories. Before I get ahead of myself how far have you read? I haven't heard a good refrence to one of the early books in some time now. It was rather refreshing <IMG SRC="/forum/images/smiles/icon_smile.gif">

[Judas]

i have read all of the books that are out. i must say that i was rather suprised and pleased at the end of winter's heart. (dang it, i was feelin all special cause i had thought of somthin new)oh well, go on, cause i ave read all the books

[Jean]

It was a new theory for you, and you figured it out on your own without seeing it on some forum. <IMG SRC="/forum/images/smiles/icon_smile.gif"> Most things from the older books are discussed anymore, except for who killed Asmodean... lol
<BR>
<BR>Bah, don't have time to post more right now, must have my car worked on. <IMG SRC="/forum/images/smiles/icon_frown.gif">

[GWINNA]

sorry, I didn't mean to rain on your parade.
<BR>Anyway keep posting although a little while ago we had some major theorists posting so I haven't been able to come up with anything "New" myself but coming up with that on your own was pretty good.

[Judas]

thanx,(i feel like a little kid that is getting a succor, for being good!) oh well, back to the old drawing board!

[ShadowReaver]

dude, enjoy being pampered <IMG SRC="/forum/images/smiles/icon_smile.gif"> it was quite inciteful and something not everyone thought of, and i agree with GWINNA. . .nice to hear about the early books for once <IMG SRC="/forum/images/smiles/icon_smile.gif">

[balefire]

Originally posted by ShadowReaver
dude, enjoy being pampered <IMG SRC="/forum/images/smiles/icon_smile.gif"> it was quite inciteful and something not everyone thought of, and i agree with GWINNA. . .nice to hear about the early books for once <IMG SRC="/forum/images/smiles/icon_smile.gif">


Well it seems this weave has almost dissipated into a few strands of Air & Fire, but if anyone wants to hear anything about the old books, can someone please tell me how Someshta's (that's the Green Man isn't it?) place works? It seems to appear & disappear within the Blight. To make things even more mysterious, Moiraine seems to have been there once, before she brought Rand & company along. What is it that she knows about the garden & the Eye that she hasn't revealed. I've always been perplexed by that whole business. And where in the world did Mashadar come from? Alright, it had something to do with Mordeth, but where did this person with Mashadar-spawning powers come from?

[Meyley]

Ok, so as I'm re-reading TGH I think I can answer the Mashadar one. Mashadar was created by hate. The people of Aridhol/Shadar Logoth became so twisted by hate that the hate itself became an actual entity. In TGH it says something about the hatred of the city manifesting into something that even the Dark One was wary of.

[balefire]

Originally posted by Meyley
Ok, so as I'm re-reading TGH I think I can answer the Mashadar one. Mashadar was created by hate. The people of Aridhol/Shadar Logoth became so twisted by hate that the hate itself became an actual entity. In TGH it says something about the hatred of the city manifesting into something that even the Dark One was wary of.

Moiraine said something like that back in TEOTW. Too bad there isn't a similar thing on the good side. But why should Mashadar exist only in Aridhol & not some other place where there's plenty of evil? Was it something to do with Mordeth? And why does he have all those supernatural powers such as the ability to remain in spirit in Shadar Logoth etc? He seems somehow to be the originator of Mashadar ie. he's the one who bred all that hatred & suspicion into Aridhol & he's the only one who isn't consumed by that glowing fog. In addition there're other evil things in Shadar Logoth which, like Mashadar, can't face the sun. Where did those creep-crawlies come from? These are some mysterious things turning up in TEOTW that never really got resolved later down the series. I 've always been rather vexed at the fact that these loose threads were never tied off :)

[magatsu17]

I think Mashadar in Shadar Logeth was like the Black Wind in the Ways. It was a physical form of the evil that had stood for so long.

Speaking of the Ways now that Saidin is clensed will the Ways become un curropted of will they keep on they way they are?? I think the healing will come but slowly.

[GWINNA]

Well if it is in fact based on the taint(which it is said that it may not be) it will not get any better only stay the same and not get any worse as RJ has stated many times.

[balefire]

What I don't understand about the Ways is, how did they get touched by the Shadow in the 1st place? I seem to remember somewhere in the early books that the taint on saidin can't come out into the world ie. the taint stays on the man channeling, it doesn't come out with the weave. So how can the taint get into the Ways to form Machin Shin? And since the Ways are not part of saidin I don't think they will be restored by the cleansing.

[GWINNA]

I don't think the taint and the ways are directly connected either and it is said that it may be a possiblity too so it is open.

[magatsu17]

Well I don't understand it either, but they also say the black wind can't come out of the was, but it almost killed Rand and Harun in book 2 and they weren't in the ways. What u think about that one.

[balefire]

Originally posted by magatsu17
Well I don't understand it either, but they also say the black wind can't come out of the was, but it almost killed Rand and Harun in book 2 and they weren't in the ways. What u think about that one.

I don't think the Black Wind almost killed them. If I remember correctly, it was waiting at the Waygate, that's all. It can't get out, as shown in book 1, when it tried to follow Rand & company to Fal Dara.

[scottgcau]

Even though Moiraine trys to explain these things, she just doing the usual Aes Sedai thing where they try to appear like they know a lot more than they actually do. Theres no way she could explain with any kind of depth and authority the origin of machin shin or shadar logoth. This stuff happened thousands of years ago. Everyone in shadar logoth died, as do almost all who have encountered machin shin. So not much info would have survived from this time, and you couldn't really get close enough to either of these things to study them in the present. What knowledge did survive probably had to be translated from the old tongue.

The only characters who might know about this stuff are Ishamael/Moridin and Padan Fain/Mordeth. They are the only ones who could have witnessed this stuff first hand. All the other forsaken were bound at the time this happened (although they would have a lot more knowledge to draw upon when theorising about how it may have happened).

So don't hold your breath waiting for in-depth explanations of these things in the books.

[Zzbrynia]

What I don't understand about the Ways is, how did they get touched by the Shadow in the 1st place? I seem to remember somewhere in the early books that the taint on saidin can't come out into the world ie. the taint stays on the man channeling, it doesn't come out with the weave. So how can the taint get into the Ways to form Machin Shin? And since the Ways are not part of saidin I don't think they will be restored by the cleansing.

I couldn't reference anything specific right now and I may be wrong, but I thought at one time Loial mentioned something about the ways becoming tainted during The Longing because the Steddings had all moved during the breaking and there were no Ogier to maintain the ways and they fell to the Shadow. That still doesn't really explain where The Black Wind itself came from.

I do agree though that the ways will not be restored by Rand's cleansing of saidin. Only the Ogier can cleanse the ways and they don't know how.

So don't hold your breath waiting for in-depth explanations of these things in the books.

Agreed, under the right (and extremely strange) circumstances, Moridin might share any knowledge he may have on those subjects, but I don't see that happening anytime soon. As for Fain, it's pretty safe to assume he does know exactly what happened thanks to his "bond" with Mordeth, but I think you'd have a better chance of Trollocs becoming vegetarians than Fain revealing the truth about Shadar Logoth's tranformation from prosperity to shadow tainted cesspool.