Sword of truth

[Buckweet]

Yea so I was in good ol' Barne's & Noble (i love that store) and low and behold the new SoT book is out. "Naked Empire"

Im going to start reading it next week as soon as I finish the latest M.Y.T.H. book I had oordered :D

So I think Im the only one on this site that is a SoT fan but I dont care :p I still think his stuff is cool.

[Lucas Jin'ra]

I just started reading Wizards First Rule. I don't really know if its my kinda book (I don't really like things with Dragons) but it seems ok so far.

[BenIII]

I ordered NE from Amazon and, therefore, have yet to receive it. SoT is over-rated by some and under-rated by others........ It's highly unoriginal, yet some of the characters are somewhat realistic....... Buy yeah, SoT is certainly nothing to write home about.

[KA3AK]

Everyone kept talking about SoT, so I started to read it as well. Man, what a waste of my time. I read the first 3 books, but then when I started the 4rth I just couldn't go on reading that crap. SoT is too boring and annoying. I know I will never read it again.

[Aragorn]

Richard Cypher is the worst wizard EVER.

[mindphone]

Originally posted by Aragorn
Richard Cypher is the worst wizard EVER.

agreed.


....and for those of you who think the first three or four books are poor - wait until you hit the ones after that. my god, they are awful!

[BenIII]

SotF was actually pretty good; grossly underrated, it is. Of course, I'm a huge Fitch fan. FotF and PoC were pretty bad, though.

WFR, on the other hand, was one of the worst books I've ever read....... The only reason I even continued reading SoT was that I had time on my hands. I sure as hell didn't get hooked by the monstrosity that is WFR.

[James]

I quite like the series. Wizard's First Rule was the best book, sadly, but apart from Pillars of Heaven they haven't been too bad. A bit too moralistic and sappy at times, but still, not too bad. Zedd cracks me up, love the mord-sith and Nicci is pretty damn cool (although less cool now that she's on richard's side :( )

[Buckweet]

Hey dont forget the Mud people!!!

*slaps james*

I see you :D

[KA3AK]

When I read WoT of LoTR I sypathized with characters. Not all of them, but with some I did. When I read SoT all I was thinking was
Could these morons finally die or something so the book would finally end!!! Someone has to put them out of their misery!!!
btw, I like to always finish books I started to read. Of course I could just stop reading SoT. But at first, after hearing a lot of good stuff about it from people like BenIII, I had a slim hope that it will get better. After the 3rd book I finally gave up. Just could take it.

And yea, Richard Cypher is a bonehead.

[talyn rahl]

SoT is FAR FAR FAR better than WoT and even though Pillars of creation isn't that good its FAR better the Crossroads of twilight, which i think may have actually made me stupider, just by me reading it, Richard is the Man, and if Rand tried to mess with him he'd RUIN his shit, the end.

[Byrn]

Screw this SOT and WOT. The Chronicles of Thomas Covenant are the best fantasy series. ;) Thomas Covenant is so potent and impotent at the same time. Plus there are real hero's like Mhoram, Saltheart Foamfollower, Bannor, Brinn, Pitchwife, Honninscrave, Sunder.....The list goes on. And yes I've read ASOIAF. It's good, but not Covenant good.


Of course this is just my OPINION. Some people may not like Covenant.

[Lucas Jin'ra]

Half way through WFR. I think Chase is the only cool character Zed is slightly annoying, I don't really care for Richard or Kahlan as I think I should, everything has been a bit predictable so far except the bad guys being paedophiles, that was a bit sickening to read. Mud people seem stupid to me and basically the land/enviroment seems a bit lame.

Someone please tell me its going to get good as at the moment I'm on the verge of moving onto Song of ice and fire series.

[KA3AK]

Richard is a moron a wuss and a screw up. With his presonality he should have been born a woman or a monkey or something. He never does anything right. If he did, SoT would end like 3 books ago. Anyway, fantasy have been so bad lately(except for aSoIaF) I'm going back to sci-fi.

[James]

Originally posted by KA3AK
Never argue with an idiot

Decides not to argue with KA3AK ;)

Mud people rule, and wow I just realised what you said in your first post buckweet and I'm gonna get that book right away :D Didn't take him long to write it, huh? Pillars of Heaven only came out not that long ago.

[Buckweet]

Well, Im about half way through it and it hasnt been that bad, much better than CoT. Better than Pillars of Creation although closely tied into it.

The book also introduces you to a new breed of people...stupid people ;)

[val7]

I'd say that WFR was better than CoT (of course, you could say that about basically any book), but in general SoT is not even on a level with WoT (don't even try to compare it to aSoIaF). SoT is terrible. I barely made it through the 2nd book and only about 50 pages into the 3rd. Chase was cool, but one good character does not make a good series.

[Lucas Jin'ra]

Finished WFR! At the end I thought it was ok but rapped everything up aswell, so I'm going to stop at that. No need to continue on a series that everyone seems to think sucks and the villan in my view destroyed.

Although I didn't think it that great it had its moments. Like when Richard kicked the princess forcing her to bite her tounge off-brilliant, so deserving.

Was it just me or was the entire book really predictable. All the revelations were easily worked out, like who betrayed him, who the wizard was etc..?

[KevBrinks]

i just finished PoC, and I actually really enjoy these books. The only character I dont like is Khalan, because she is so bipolar. She gets up in the morning, gets weepy for Richard not being there, steels herself, goes on a murderous rampage, comes back covered in blood, goes to bed, and then starts crying because she missed Richards arms around her...

shes like a lovesick puppy that turns into a bulldog at night or something.

other than that, I really like the series. I think Richard is really cool, in that I see a lot of myself in him through his moral views and such. I think TG did a great job developing Richard's character. Buck, I'm with you in this.

[Buckweet]

Well I just finished Naked Empire yesterday and I must say TG writes good endings for his books and I forgot how much so till last night. I actually giggled at like 3 in the morning when I read the last few pages... giggled!! :D

TG's books are real good b/c each book is a story on its own and even though it may leave things open ...for the *ques dramatic music* next episode it leaves you with a sense of closure till the next book comes along.

Im actually pondering on rereading the last 2 chaptrers b/c they were so good.

And kev, I also am all about richards views on eithics. I sometimes quote the books, when I argue politics.... well :umm: maybe not quote quote but definitely fudge quote his stuff.

Of course nothing beats Wizard's First Rule ;)

[KevBrinks]

holy shit dude that is so cool. last night i got in an argument with my brother and his gf when i said that "people are stupid" on the side. so i was arguing the case really well, but as soon as i let slip that it came from a fantasy book they stopped believing me and just made fun of me:(

[Buckweet]

Well thats the trick with Wizard's rules. You keep the source secret and you take advantage ;)

[talyn rahl]

yeah also its really good for getting information you didn't know, you just need to be really vague and act like you know what your talking about.

[BenIII]

NE quite disappointing.The plot was stale and unoriginal as they come and the characters are ridiculously self-righteous and philosophical. The plot was the same ol' same ol' - Richard and company are captured, Richard and company make the best of their situation, Richard and company make a lot of speeches that somehow overcome a lifetime of indoctrination. Richard and company the proceed to free the country, but not before Kahlan is captured and almost raped. The same old happily-ever-after ending then ensues - an ending in which the characters go away unscathed, despite all they have endured.

I really hate that book..........

[KevBrinks]

the characters have never gone from one book to another unscathed you dolt

[BenIII]

Oh, sure, they're captured and tortured horribly...... They unfailingly walk away from the aforementioned torture, though, with no lingering psychological or physical problems.

Thanks for the poorly-written feedback, though. It's always good to know that someone cares.

[Buckweet]

:umm:

Thats not all true, B3. Many characters have died in the series. Both good and bad.

Warren is a good example.

And whats wrong with a little philosophy and rightiousness? Thats the style of the series, nothing new by TG.

Why did you read up to NE if you dont like that sort?

[BenIII]

I think it funny that people act as though Goodkind is some kind of Martin simply because he kills off one non-PoV character.

I continue to read the books because I've liked some of the characters(Fitch, Nicci, Jennsen).

[Fusion]

Wow... i'm trying to decide if i should read this series or not and i have to say after reading this topic i think i will not read it, almost 3 quarters said it was one of the worst series you have ever read, before this all i heard was good about this series :eek:

[LaughingTurtle]

It's actually not as bad as some make it out to be. It's pretty well written but is preachy at times and as bucky put it "philosophy and rightiousness." But that doesn't make it bad. The only real one that I disliked out of the series was pillar of creation cause the main characters weren't even in the book til the final chapters. Other than that the others have been readable.

What I hate most is when people say it's bad compared to Martin or Jordan, or when people even compare Jordan to Martin. About the only thing they have in common is that their series are both fictional series. One is high fantasy - WOT, the other is more noir type fantasy, with dark and reality type motifs. Goodkind is kind of a mix in between the two. You can't really compare one another because they are different styles of writting. It would be akin to comparing terry pratchett to Robert Heinlein, sure they're both sci fiction but they have distinctly different styles.

You can like one series more than another but to compare one against the other is silly because it's comparing apples and oranges, it's all a matter of personal taste.

/gets off soap box

[BenIII]

The only real one that I disliked out of the series was pillar of creation cause the main characters weren't even in the book til the final chapters.

Ironically, I liked PoC because it gave us a reprieve from the droid-like Richard and Kahlan.

SoT, WoT and ASOIAF all have a lot in common, actually. They're all fantasy. Simply belonging to different sub-genres doesn't make them too different to be compared.

[Dregs]

I would have to disagree there. Jungle, Hardhouse and Trance are all sub genres of music and can be compared on one level. But on a less superficial level they are completely different and do not compare.

Same with fiction. Although SoT, WoT and SoIF are all similar in the fantasy genre, their respective sub-categorisation can make them inappropriate to compare. I like SoT for the simple and effective story lines, and WoT for the complex swirls. And hate them both for the same reasons. They are two different stories and any comparison is bound to be subjective, personal and not given to generalisation.

[KevBrinks]

kinda like saidin and saidar, where they both are the OP but both are completely different.

Perhaps what you need to do is explain what you mean by "unscathed". Kahlan lost a child. Richard has his feeling about collars, his ability to withstand pain. what about Richard pre-recieving the SoT and after? Hes a completely different person. When Kahlan thinks that Darken Rahl killed Richard, she goes berzerk and everything...is that unscathed? I dont see how you can say that every book ends happily ever after, because its so short lived, like a landing on a flight of stairs. Every book is the same way, unless its some sort of cliffhanger novel. Having some form of peace at the end is a way of making an ENDING to a book, because we all want a sense of closure. Who wants to wait 3 years to figure out whether someone falls off a cliff or something because you have to wait between books?

[BenIII]

Same with fiction. Although SoT, WoT and SoIF are all similar in the fantasy genre, their respective sub-categorisation can make them inappropriate to compare. I like SoT for the simple and effective story lines, and WoT for the complex swirls. And hate them both for the same reasons. They are two different stories and any comparison is bound to be subjective, personal and not given to generalisation.

I'm not quite sure how simply belonging to different sub-genres prevents the books from being compared.Basically, they're all Fantasy. They all contain magic, dragons, wizards, etc. It's quite possible to compare them.

Perhaps what you need to do is explain what you mean by "unscathed". Kahlan lost a child. Richard has his feeling about collars, his ability to withstand pain. what about Richard pre-recieving the SoT and after? Hes a completely different person.

I beg to differ. In WFR, Richard is tortured for, what, a month? Yet, after he finally escapes, he's the same old Richard. I mean, don't you think that, after a month of being tortured by someone who's very good at torturing people, you'd be just a little crazy. Not so with Richard.

I dont see how you can say that every book ends happily ever after, because its so short lived, like a landing on a flight of stairs.

So, you don't consider all the characters walking off into the sunset and telling jokes "happily-ever-after"? You'll have to explain that.


Having some form of peace at the end is a way of making an ENDING to a book, because we all want a sense of closure. Who wants to wait 3 years to figure out whether someone falls off a cliff or something because you have to wait between books?

Instead, we wait three years for a book that has a simple and unoriginal plot that is nearly identical to the plot of the book before it(hyperbole, of course. The plots are very similar, though)? The stand-alone aspect of the SoT novels is a huge impediment.

[KevBrinks]

*throws hands up in the air*

I give up. You are one of those people we call "bigots"...but everyone is entitled to their own opinion. I'm not going to try to convince you of something different, I just wanted more people to read the books, and not to ditch the idea before they check them out. Regardless of a universal attitude, *some* people liked the books. If you want something to read, I would recommend them. Hell its free at your local library anyway, so if you dont like them you dont pay any price for it

Dont bash it til you've tried it

*is done*

[Buckweet]

yea, I agree with you two, SoT is not really comparible to SoFaI and WoT and Death gate cycle and and and.... they all are quite different.

I stand by SoT. If you are looking for a book:

That has a romance story.
That has a story in itself in each book.
That has some a non perfect goody goody world but is realistic.
That has magic :)
That has some real unique lovable character types
That has ideals and rightiousness as said earlier.
That has some wit and humour.
That has a new plot in each book.


This book series is for you.


If you:

Dont like clearly defined opinions and philosophy
Dont like Romance.
Dont like mature conversations.


Just dont read it. Do not read it and complain. Thats like me slamming hmy hand with a hammer and saying that I dont like it and then doing it again :p

[BenIII]

I give up. You are one of those people we call "bigots"...but everyone is entitled to their own opinion. I'm not going to try to convince you of something different, I just wanted more people to read the books, and not to ditch the idea before they check them out. Regardless of a universal attitude, *some* people liked the books. If you want something to read, I would recommend them. Hell its free at your local library anyway, so if you dont like them you dont pay any price for it


:rolleyes:

No, I'm not a bigot; I simply disliked the series.

I don't recommend buying each book new. Borrowing them from the library(or buying them used) couldn't hurt, though. Bad as it is, SoT is far from the worst out there.

[talyn rahl]

Sot is so much better than WoT that its a joke, SoT has good charecters, good storyline and in general is a good book, i guess if your used to crap like the later WoT books then you may not notice that they are actually really good books, not crap written for the point of finishing a story,

oh yeah and the only reason he doesn't get changed by the torture is because he partitions his mind with thoughts of Kahlan, and if you remember he did go crazy he forgot everything except for Kahlans Name, but when he killed Denna he got it all back.

[KA3AK]

*points out to talyn that this is wotism community*

*shakes his head*

*burns a couple of SoT books*

[Byrn]

~Smackes KA3AK upside his head~

NEVER burn a book! :mad: :furious:

[KA3AK]

Yea, book burning is a bad habit...but it's sure is fun.

*knocks Byrn to the ground*

Nothing personal, everyone who hits me gets it.

[val7]

I burnt Doña Perfecta when we were forced to read it in Spanish last year.... god that is an awful book, esp when you are reading it in a foreign language...

[James]

When we were younger me and sebastian burnt a book as an offering to the gods. I forget which gods. I think we wanted power though, magical power. :umm:

[talyn rahl]

My friend once burnt a bible that was given to us free in an assembly, he only really did it to piss off the devout Chrsitian Head teacher.

It worked.

all 'alternative' people where lined up and shouted at, then we all shouted back :) it was great

[franja]

Terry Goodkind just don´t know what else to tell since the end of the first book.
WOT series is far more planificated and the story just make sense when SOT is a pile of books. The pillars and the faith of the fallen sucks.

[magatsu17]

I like the Sword of Truth alot. Richard to me is one of the most Badass characters I've ever read. He basicly Ignores the rules that everyone else lives by does his own thing and kicks every one's ass. The bad thing about the series is that everyone else underestimates him so bad it's almost insane. After every thing that he done and accomplished they still try to "potect him" by lying and hiding the truth from him.

Also each book has lot of throw away characters, and just about each one has some new villian or new danger. NE was such a standard SoT book it's almost a fomula now. The first two book Wizard's First Rule and Stone of Tears I thought were really good, they got worse after that Till Faith of the Fallen which I really loved. Faith of the Fallen and Storm of Sword's are the only hardback book's I've gotten where I feel I got my money's worth.

[Loyalty]

The SoT series does have its moments. So far (and I just finished faith of the fallen) I've enjoyed the books, but then again I picked up the first one just for something to read until the next Jordan book comes out. Only one thing bugs the shit out of me when it comes to SoT:

The main character has no flaws. To be honest, I'm surprised Goodkind is a guy, because his protagonist seems written to be the ideal of a woman's fantasy genre character. Dude is good looking, tall and muscular, great fighter, perfect boyfriend, outdoorsy type, can shrug off months of torture without becoming a basket case, he can carve a statue that brings tears to people's eyes..hell, he even gets his hot captor to fall for him. its a little ridiculous. He's never wrong..always turns out the people that doubted him were wrong.

But it is a good way to kill time:D

[magatsu17]

It's funny that what bothers you is the thing that I like the most. Richard is perfect, and that's what I like so much about it. He's just a super bad ass who's good at everything he tries. It's really unique to me to read about a character like that. The main problem I have with the series is alot of the books focus on other characters that just aren't as interesting. While characters like Nathan aren't given enough time. In fact all the Rahl chacters are just way badder than any other. Even Drefan was sweet for half a book.

[Lucas Jin'ra]

After getting very pissed off with my Malazan mistake, I was in need of reading something else. I had bought Stone of Tears at the same time as WFR, but left it unread, instead opting for aSoIaF at the time, then Malazan Book Of the Fallen, but now I have started reading it as there doesn't appear to be anything else worth reading.

[Night_Daughter]

Originally posted by Loyalty
The SoT series does have its moments. So far (and I just finished faith of the fallen) I've enjoyed the books, but then again I picked up the first one just for something to read until the next Jordan book comes out. Only one thing bugs the shit out of me when it comes to SoT:

The main character has no flaws. To be honest, I'm surprised Goodkind is a guy, because his protagonist seems written to be the ideal of a woman's fantasy genre character. Dude is good looking, tall and muscular, great fighter, perfect boyfriend, outdoorsy type, can shrug off months of torture without becoming a basket case, he can carve a statue that brings tears to people's eyes..hell, he even gets his hot captor to fall for him. its a little ridiculous. He's never wrong..always turns out the people that doubted him were wrong.

But it is a good way to kill time:D
sorry, I hit the post button here before I was done.

[Night_Daughter]

Originally posted by Loyalty
The SoT series does have its moments. So far (and I just finished faith of the fallen) I've enjoyed the books, but then again I picked up the first one just for something to read until the next Jordan book comes out. Only one thing bugs the shit out of me when it comes to SoT:

The main character has no flaws. To be honest, I'm surprised Goodkind is a guy, because his protagonist seems written to be the ideal of a woman's fantasy genre character. Dude is good looking, tall and muscular, great fighter, perfect boyfriend, outdoorsy type, can shrug off months of torture without becoming a basket case, he can carve a statue that brings tears to people's eyes..hell, he even gets his hot captor to fall for him. its a little ridiculous. He's never wrong..always turns out the people that doubted him were wrong.

But it is a good way to kill time:D
hey, of course he's a guy. he just found a way to have almost alol the sstraight females read his books! heck, to fantasize about Richard is the only reson most people read them.

[Loyalty]

:rolleyes: :D

[Sayuri Sedai]

i finished the first book a couple weeks ago, and just got the second. SoT doesnt look like it will be one of my favorites, but its still good reading.

[Lady Damodred]

Has anyone read this series???? Anyway I think its really great! :p

[Aziz]

who rote it?

[Lady Damodred]

Terry Goodkind

[RandomSanity]

Hell yeah! I've read them all twice so far, and I just got my wife into them too.

[Sayuri Sedai]

ive only read the first two books so far, but im enjoying them quite much.

[Berk]

Can't stand em. Then again, I hate Tolkien and Harry Potter as well.


I have extremely high standards.

[Dingdin]

See this thread: http://www.wotism.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=4652

btw, Berk, for a moderator, that's a very destructive remark you made there. Sorry if I offend. I have extremely high standards for moderators.

[Berk]

I wasn't aware that my opinions were somehow more important that any others due to my being a moderator.

Nor do I see how they are destructive, or in truth what you mean by that.

[Dingdin]

I may be wrong, but I think the concept "moderator" exists for the purpose of moderating on the board. In my world, "to moderate" means to mediate; to keep in check; to set a good example; and also in this case to act as a kind of host for the forum.

IMO, a moderator that categorically, and condescendingly concludes "Can't stand em. Then again, I hate Tolkien and Harry Potter as well. I have extremely high standards." is a very bad host... and destructive because the person whose opinion you don't agree with may be dissuaded from posting, or may post with less confidence. You represent the board in a way, don't you realise that? As a consequence, your opinion as a moderator is, if anything, less important than that of the rest of us. The point of the message board is to facilitate the exchange of opinions and other communication. I cannot see how your remark does this, or any of the other things I listed above. In fact, I think it does the opposite.

If you don't agree, please explain to me the value that your remark added to the conversation.


/Dingdin

[Berk]

Wow, I am suitably impressed. That was an intelligent, well reasoned, and eloquent response.

Now, allow me to retort.

You made a few points so I will respond to them in turn.

As a moderator, it is my duty to do all those things you mentioned. However, it is not a requirement to not have an opinion nor to agree with everything everyone else says for the sole basis of not disduading someone else to post.

The reason this person posted was to recommend to the world Terry Goodkind's series as he/she thought it to be truly incredible. I know when I see reviews of something I prefer different opinions to have a better idea what it is like. My response was to show there are people who did not like it. Then I added an adendum to let those people know what my tastes were like. If someone loves Potter and Tolkien, he/she would ignore my remark. If someone hated them, like me, he/she may decide it is not worth it.

This is the reason I mentioned them and why they do indeed add to the conversation.

My ending remark was a joke; however, it is obvious that you, at least, did not get it which does not make me a bad person but rather a poor comedian.

But, back on topic, I will never agree with someone I disagree with simply to avoid the hypothetical situation of someone being less confident to post because one person disagrees.

Edit: Of course you say you do not intend to offend but your remark "I have high standards for moderators" betrays how you really feel.

[talyn rahl]

wow thats a lot of type for a little reason.

anyhoo

i really like SoT, its interesting, i've read them all and can't wait for the next one to come out :) does anyone know when?

[Dingdin]

Berk,

It's been a long time since your message was posted, but I'll reply anyway. I only want to say that I regret ever mentioning my opinion. However, it was, and still is sincere. I tried to take the heat off the first remark by sending your own joke back at you, which back-fired, and I regret that.

I still think that you as a moderator should think about how you say things, especially when you tell us your opinion (which I don't mind at all, that's not the problem). You could tell us you don't like the series in a friendly way.

Enough of that.

To bring this post back where it belongs: like you, I am not personally impressed with the Sword of Truth series. Although I have only read the first book. My problem is that the characters don't convince me, and I find the storytelling fragmented. The end of the book is better than the rest though, which is very rare in my opinion.

Peace

/Dingdin

[Lady Damodred]

Looks like the thread went a little astray......*tries to fix it*

[Death]

well dont worry lady D. im a prety big fan of that series as well as the wheel of time series,any fantasy books that have a good story,are very long,lots of sword fights and magic go perfect with me.

[rado907]

Originally posted by Berk
Can't stand em. Then again, I hate Tolkien and Harry Potter as well.


I have extremely high standards. heh
same here

[Tenaka]

i really like the series as well, although i do think that TG has gone a little prechy in the last few books and kinda forgotten about the story. However i am waiting for the next book to come out, Chainfire series i think it is?

KP

[Mizz Elayne]

I love SoT, but I haven't read more than halfway in book 5 (I'm working on it)

I must agree that it's a bit unoriginal, but at the same time it's more realistic than most other fantasy books. I think the story is sweet.. It might be that I found some pieces of the book boring, but I have a talent for forgetting boring things, so I do't remember any...

How many books are there?

[Tenaka]

i think that there is 8 so far. And he is currently writing the ninth now. There is meant to be about 11 in the series..... but thats what they used to say with RJ as well. :)

[Mizz Elayne]

OK.. Some to go, then!

[Tenaka]

yeah, the last few are pretty hard going as well, but i think worth it if you enjoy the first ones. :)

[Mizz Elayne]

All that's bothering me is that they haven't got more than the three first books at the library... There isn't room for more books in my bookshelf! :(

[Tenaka]

he he he, yeah i know that feeling!

[TCovenant]

Mildly enjoyable reading though the series is, the author's attempt at political theory is laughable. It's hard to believe the books aren't intended as poor quality propaganda with a fantasy novel tacked on, given the simplistic moralising and flawed reasoning of the more recent part of the series. Simplistic trashy fantasy can be enjoyable, but when the author tries to use said simplistic trash to deliver some hackneyed political mantra its just nauseating.

[Spittlecoccus]

Mildly enjoyable reading though the series is, the author's attempt at political theory is laughable. It's hard to believe the books aren't intended as poor quality propaganda with a fantasy novel tacked on, given the simplistic moralising and flawed reasoning of the more recent part of the series. Simplistic trashy fantasy can be enjoyable, but when the author tries to use said simplistic trash to deliver some hackneyed political mantra its just nauseating.

I take it you don't care much for David Eddings either, right? LOL.

[TCovenant]

"I take it you don't care much for David Eddings either, right? LOL."
Are you kidding, I loved his book (sing.) I don't understand why he keeps republishing the same book with a different title though. :rolleyes:

Interestingly enough the Synopsis of David Eddings thread applies to Sword of Truth with spooky accuracy.

[rikkkup]

Eh.. I am on Faith of the Fallen.. and i can't keep going after the first few pages. They are really starting to bore me and there's other series i would like to read. But if anyone thinks that they are worth reading and i should go on.. please let me know

[Ahkella]

The series is good for the first 3 books after that it goes a little downhill, good read to keep you occupied while waiting for something better to come out. I am current with the series and will get the next book more from wanting to see how it ends than anything TG goes off on these long winded rants with Richard that will probably drive you nuts. Almost as bad if not worse than RJ's need in his last few books to spend entire chapters on the kind of stitching used to make the dress.

[TCovenant]

Well, I can't agree with the statement that the series is good, but I've read up to Faith of the Fallen, and yes it does go downhill.

[Tenaka]

I'd say keep reading Faith of the Fallen! I thought that that book was the best of the whole lot. It was great.

[Vashna]

just wondering, why are there 2 threads for this? anyway...

I'm up to book 4 right now, (temple of winds), so far it has been interesting, but the comparisons between it and Wot are impossible to ignore. Which series was written first? Does anybody know?

I'm not saying that it was stolen or anything, just that some parts come off as being too similar to me.

[Jean]

just wondering, why are there 2 threads for this? anyway...

I'm up to book 4 right now, (temple of winds), so far it has been interesting, but the comparisons between it and Wot are impossible to ignore. Which series was written first? Does anybody know?

I'm not saying that it was stolen or anything, just that some parts come off as being too similar to me.

I merged the 2 Sword of Truth threads to make it more organized.

Oh, and WoT was written first. Quote from RJ: "I am aware of Mr. Goodkind." lol

[Dj_ez]

Oh thank God!!! While I was sure that other wotists noticed the similarities, I hadnt seen any posts on it. YAY, I can see the light shinning in my eyes!!!

:D :D :D :D :D :D

[magatsu17]

I like Sword of Truth, I've read them all. Though they are becoming pretty forumlaic. It seems like 4 or the 7 books are almost very much the same. But I keep goin cause Richard is such a badass. He makes it worth reading to me.

[logan]

i think that the SoT series is great. the only bad thing is that i'm waiting for book number 8. but i have to say Naked Empire was a bit of a let down.

[Loyalty]

i thought book 8 was a little preachy

[KevBrinks]

What I dont like is how the series starts out, and Richard is against this evil sorceror in a different country. Kills him, then hes against the Keeper himself and his minions. Sets them back, and now hes against this barbarian from the south? Kinda anti-climactic, imho

[Vashna]

Okay so everyone knows about the similarities between the two series, but here is slightly more proof.

Well Debt of Bones was released today in paperback in the US.

And Today they are all being recalled and destroyed.

Seems TOR messed up.

On the copyright page of the book it says

Copyright Robert Jordan

yup you read that right, someone messed up and put Jordans name on the copyright page.

Needless to say that is a very bad thing, which prompted TOR to recall every copy of the book to be destroyed.

So run out and buy it today if you can because odds are tommorow it won't be there.

Even TOR thinks that he stole the ideas of RJ

[Amberly]

did it really just come out.. cause if it did I'm going to the store to see if I can still buy one...

[Vashna]

Its dated November 02 (ED) 2004

[Amberly]

nov 2nd or nov 2002?

[Lewstherinwot]

Uh, I stopped reading after Pillars of Creation...Jensenny ruined it for me

[Amberly]

ohh btw what vash reported is true I went out and bought a copy....its a limited edition paperback... copy right Robert Jordan

[Mazrim_Taim]

I just started reading the first book (I'm about a third of the way through). Is this series worth my time? I mean, I like it so far, although the dialogue kinda sucks (that or they really talk like that in the book, however you want to look at it) (I guess it's the same with the Shannara series, the dialogue is corny at best, or those really really long narratives explaining stuff. don't get me started on those...I liked the WoT because the dialogue wasn't As lame, and in some cases, awesome moments there.)
So....the books get better, right?

[Sathos]

I flipped through Wizard's First Rule... it doesn't seem bad, but I can't say I'm looking forward to it either. I don't mind a little romance, but from what I saw, it focuses a little too much on Kahlan (sp?) and Richard. And I hate to say it, but it also seemed a little over-dramatic, like one of those bad TV dramas. I'll still read it, but I'll be finishing WOT, ASoIaF, and a few other series first.

[Mazrim_Taim]

Well, they're the main characters. But yeah, Zeddicus is just awesome!
~floats himself some vittles~ mmmm! food!

[Sathos]

I don't mind if a book focuses a lot on the main characters, I meant they focus a little too much on their relationship. I like a little bit of that in books, but I prefer more story. It doesn't matter much either way, I guess - I'll read them and then post my opinion.

[Vashna]

Yeah I found that the books were a little too focused on Rich and Kaylan too. It gets tedious after about 4 where the same things happen again and again. I won't spoil it by saying more though.

[Night_Daughter]

I don't mind that It focuses on the main characters but I found that the plot seemed to be repeating in each book with only a few minor changes. It seems that in every book, someone gets captured, they go through emotional or physical trauma, they get rescued/escape/reunited, everyones happy again. Its not a bad read but I just read it because I need something to read.

[Vashna]

So I hear that the next book Chainfire is supposed to be out this month. How many people are up to it? its book number... 10?

[Night_Daughter]

If I see it in a bookstore I'll probably stop and skim through it but if it isn't anything different or interesting, I doubt that I'll buy it.

[Vashna]

Yeah I might wait until the small paperback (ie the cheap one) comes out... Although in this newsletter thingy that Dymocks sent me its only 25 for the big one which isn't too bad.

[Mazrim_Taim]

And I'm reading Blood of the Fold! Woot!
Good stuff so far! I think I just finished the scene of Sister Margaret's demise.
~shudders~ graphic stuff in here...

[Tenaka]

About 200 pages into Chainfire.

Already better than Naked Empire.

[Vashna]

Hmm, maybe I'll keep reading then...*stopped at 100*

So far it just seems to be repeating the others... Oh wow, Kahlan is gone... AGAIN.

[Aviendha2]

Chainfire is the BEST book by Terry Brooks. *finished three times*

[KA3AK]

I'd like to voice a general objection to the existance of SoT.

~nods~

[Tenaka]

Really enjoyed Chainfire. Thought it was the best of the latter books (excluding Faith of the Fallen). I loved the twist at the end....

Next book is going to be good how it is basically back to a smiliar situation as the first book. That alone makes me wanna read the next book!

[magatsu17]

i really liked chainfire it's definatley better thatn Naked Empire and Pillars of Creation. I still think Faith of the Fallen was better though.

[GammaPro]

Personally, I think Chainfire was just... okay.

However, I think because Pillars of Creation and Naked Empire were so droll, Chainfire seemed leaps and bounds greater by comparison. Truth be told, Chainfire doesn't even begin to compare with Faith of the Fallen, which (IMO), is Goodkind's best work to date.

[Mazrim_Taim]

Chainfire is the BEST book by Terry Brooks. *finished three times*
(clears throat) ahem, Terry Goodkind, you mean. Terry Brooks has another one of those High Druid of Shannara books due next fall...havn't even read the second one, it wasn't to die for though.
Erm, yeah. I'm plowing away through Soul of the Fire, and I'll catch up to you guys eventually...I've heard Faith of the Fallen is one of the best ones, so I'm looking forward to that one.
(rubs hands in anticipation)
Then I think I'll take a break from SoT and read up on A song of Ice and Fire. Unless you all think that's a bad idea to transition...

[magatsu17]

U can't break reading SOT for ASoFaI. AsoFaI needs to be read by itself with no distractions what so ever. Most consider it better than the WoT now. Cause of the latter WoT books haven't been up to snuff, and ASoFaI always just awesome. but then again WoT was awesome after 4 books also so i guess it's just a matter of oppinion. Anyway wait till ur done with SoT then take up aSoFaI

[Mazrim_Taim]

okey...I'll take your word for it...

[Aviendha2]

(clears throat) ahem, Terry Goodkind, you mean. Terry Brooks has another one of those High Druid of Shannara books due next fall...havn't even read the second one, it wasn't to die for though.
Erm, yeah. I'm plowing away through Soul of the Fire, and I'll catch up to you guys eventually...I've heard Faith of the Fallen is one of the best ones, so I'm looking forward to that one.
(rubs hands in anticipation)
Then I think I'll take a break from SoT and read up on A song of Ice and Fire. Unless you all think that's a bad idea to transition...
Sorry. Terry GOODKIND.

[Mazrim_Taim]

:D
didn't mean to be an asshole, but...
just makin sure it wasn't deliberate.

[Aviendha2]

*does a sweet imitation of Napoleon Dynamite.* Gosh!!!
OOC: That's not to be rude.

[Eolyn]

Im just about to buy Faith of the Fallen. I hope it good.

[GammaPro]

Im just about to buy Faith of the Fallen. I hope it good.

It's only the best book in the snire series. Unfortunately, it's all downhill after that one. IMO, at least.

[Aviendha2]

*nods head* Yup!

[Mazrim_Taim]

Actually, I liked Stone of Tears better than Faith of the Fallen. And Temple of Winds is close too. I like that one a lot. Oh yeah, and just finished Faith of the Fallen. I loved it. was so cool.
And now I'm interrupting my daily goodkind with a bit of Martin, against my friend's advice (because I don't have the next two books on paperback yet. will though. very soon).

[Eolyn]

im just after getting faith of the fallen...just read the star of it coz i got exams and cant get roped into the book*grumbles*
I hope its good.Its starting to bore me with things pooping up and stuff.

[magatsu17]

Faith of the Fallen is really good, Storne of Tears is still my favorite though. Faith of the Fallen gave me renewed passion for ht series.

Chainfire did it again

[Eolyn]

Well im not exactly blown away by it so far*sigh*i wanted to be:(

[toasted toads]

SOT is so much better than WOT. While Rand sits around and acts grouchy the majority of the time, Richard is out ruling empires and kicking ass like nobody's business, as all of the Rahls do. Kahlan is way cooler than Elayne or Egwene or Nynaeve or any women from WOT. And the really good part about this series- stuff actually happens! We don't sit there reading an etire book and have nothing go on with the main character, like Crossroads of Twilight. Seriously, the only thing that happened was Rand waking up after destroying Shadar Logoth. Richard could kick Rand's ass.
By the way, I'm in the middle of reading Naked Empire, and I never plan on reading the rest of WOT after reading SOT.

[Mazrim_Taim]

(tsks)
better as in entertainment. Not better as far as the world goes. SoT makes up stuff as it goes, kingdoms are ill defined, and the main focus is on the main characters and what they do. WoT is focused on the richness of the world. So while SoT, I would agree, is a great deal more entertaining than WoT, WoT I would actually consider fantasy Literature. As in it has a well defined, fantasy world that is a lot more believable. Also, the "magic" element in Wheel of Time is a lot more down to earth and limited than the SoT magic. SoT, you can do just about anything with magic it seems, whereas the One Power is more realistic, drawing from elements and combinatinos of elements. Not disagreeing with you as far as twists and entertainment goes, but...I like both series for different reasons. And it is not your place to talk down the Wheel of Time on a forum dedicated to the series (looks at you)
I do love your screenname though.
"True as Toasted Toads"

[toasted toads]

yeah well all of you shouldn't talk crap about SOT then. half of the people doing so probably haven't read more than the first one or two books anyway.
thanks. I love my screen name too. but it's "the toasted toads truth." ;)

[GammaPro]

yeah well all of you shouldn't talk crap about SOT then. half of the people doing so probably haven't read more than the first one or two books anyway.
thanks. I love my screen name too. but it's "the toasted toads truth." ;)

While I love SoT, Rand kicks way more ass than Richard. Why? Because he's real. Does he get whiny and moody at times? Yes. He's human. Richard, on the other hand, is perfect. He does EVERYTHING right.

And, Kahlan, I've hated her ever since she willingly went down on who she thought was Richard's brother. Oh yeah, she really loves Richard. :rolleyes:

Oh, and did I mention thta Richard hasn't stopped preaching the last 3 books?

And, as far as Goodkind goes, his writing isn't as well thought out. He just ... forgets things. Where are all the gar? Is the dragon dead? There is war covering the entire land, and the last couple of books deal with liitle side plots.

[Serenla]

I've been hearing a lot about this series, and while I haven't read it yet, I plan to... after I finish the last three books (including Knife of Dreams) of WoT, that is :p.

Actually, my grandmother is in the living room right now reading "Stone of Tears" as I make this post. She's already read the whole series, but wants to refresh her memory because I guess a new one has just come out or something. And she too says that Richard could kick Rand's ass, but whenever she starts talking about that I just plug my ears and say "La la la la la I can't hear you!" :D Rand is the best and he can knock this Richard guy into oblivion unless I read the series and decide I like him better, got it? :p

[GammaPro]

And she too says that Richard could kick Rand's ass, but whenever she starts talking about that I just plug my ears and say "La la la la la I can't hear you!" :D Rand is the best and he can knock this Richard guy into oblivion unless I read the series and decide I like him better, got it? :p

Rand gains his skills the old fashioned way: Training and lots of trial and error.

Richard, on the other hand, gains his fighting skills through a magic sword. And, he knows even less about controlling his power than Rand does. Rand wins, in a heartbeat. For Richard to beat Rand, Rand would have to directly threaten Kahlan's life.

[Mazrim_Taim]

Let's hope Rand isn't that stupid...
but yeah, great point Gammapro.
Don't mess with Kahlan or Richard will kick your ass somehow :D
Oh, finished Pillars of Creation a while ago. It was cool, and since it was from another viewpoint (and one of these characters actually lived at the end! cough...Fitch...cough!), but all the Oba scenes were really annoying. Ya gotta be really retarded or something to think like that guy does.

[Nesaa]

I read most of the Sword of Truth series years ago... that's actually what lead to finding the Wheel of Time, so I am eternally greatful to Terry Goodkind for that... But the last book I read was Faith of the Fallen which was AWESOME, then I waited for a long time for Pillars of Creation (I think that was the next one) and I just couldn't get into it... I guess it might be time to try again.

[Tenaka]

Yeah, Faith of the Fallen is one of my faves from that series too.

[digeon83]

Faith of the Fallen was great, and I also fell off either during or right after reading Pillars of Creation - cant remember

[Nesaa]

Yes, it was an excellent book... i really loved temple of the winds too... isn't that the one where richard remembers all of his powers...! Except it kinda sucked when he forgot again

[digeon83]

yeah that one was cool - I pretty much like all the first ones

[Tenaka]

Can someone explain to me how he apparently steals ideas from RJ, i just must not pay enough attention, becasue i've never noticed it.

[Nesaa]

Like I said, I read SOT first... so I didn't notice... Fantasy is often similar i mean look at Jordan and Tolkien.... but I'm sure that's been discussed to death and not for this thread... LOL

[digeon83]

I personally dont see any specific ideas, except for maybe confessors being the equivilant of AS and male confessors being like male channelers

[Mazrim_Taim]

kind of. Actually the Sisters of the Light remind me more of Aes Sedai, but that's just me. Sisters of Dark-Black Ajah equivalent.
Their city (what's it called again?) palace which prevents them from aging as fast as other people (similar though more dramatic than Aes Sedai "agelessness", expanding to almost a thousand years rather than only 300)
a general lack of people with the ability of "magic" (well it's certainly more magic in the SoT world than it is in WoT, where it's merely channeling elements and has a lot more set limits) because over time magic is bred out of people and a reference to a war long ago of wizards and such of opposing sides duking it out destroying a bunch of stuff (similar to the catastrophes of the Breaking).
A New world and an Old World at war once more, with the forces of the Old world rallying behind a powerful emperor with cunning and powers and a big army (similar to the struggle between Randland and Seanchan, which believes Randland should be brought under its sway of it's empress, believed to have mystical powers)
Keeper=Dark One
Creator=well...the Creator hmm...
Well yeah there are a whole lot of similarities to me.
But that doesn't make me dislike either one or condemn one of "copying" the other.

[Tenaka]

Oh, so nothing really significant then.

(you could probably make links like that between most fantasy novels)

[digeon83]

exactly - the links arent stretches to make, but they would appear in almost every fantasy novel

[Kimya-san]

There are definetly similarities. But he also has some original ideas that i think are great. Confessors, Mord-sith, The Seeker... I read the books because I think those are real great original characters and notions. And the whole idea of magic there is different. And there is a lot more of it.

[BenIII]

To be honest, I myself see many similarities. It's been a couple of years since I've read the books, but I'll try to list them.

Sisters of Light - Aes Sedai - A group of women who posses supernatural powers and live in an independent city state. They also have the Aes Sedai's contempt for men.

Collar that controls male wizards - a'dam - Yes, the a'dam also makes an appearance in SoT.

Blood of the Fold - Children of the Light - In my opinion the most glaring similarity between the series. The Blood of the Fold is a super-zealous, militant organization(garishly dressed, just as the whitecloaks) that dedicates itself to searching for bannelings, and have the same fear and contempt for Magic-users as the Whitecloaks do for Channelers.

Bannelings - Darkfriends- Individuals who serves the Keeper as opposed to the... Well, whoever the God figure is in Goodkind's novels, I can't seem to remember.

[Tidus]

Dreamwalker Jagang- Wise one dreamwalkers, Egwene etc

There are a few others but your right Blood of the Fold instantly reminded me of whitecloaks.

Edit-That said, i still find the books enjoyable, i have read much worse.

[Nesaa]

To be honest, I myself see many similarities. It's been a couple of years since I've read the books, but I'll try to list them...

It's been a long time, but now that you mention it, I guess there are quite a few parallels.

In most fantasy there's magic, good vs. evil, etc... these all have to be put into some kind of terms to form the story... I think that's what makes these authors so amazing, that they can create completely new ways to write about topics that have been covered many times before.

I'm going to have to pick up the series again while waiting for the next WOT book.

[Tidus]

Yea i started Chainfire last night, for those of you who have read it. Please tell me what you think about the first few chapters when:

Richard is trying to prove Kahlans exsistance(sp), he goes over tracks and such when he should take examples from how she(Kahlan) alone saved him from the plague after he took it into himself and she released the chimes, because if Kahlan didn't exsist then alot of things would be different, i think Goodkind made a major fuck up doing this Kahlan thing, because one the chimes would have never been released, two richard would be dead, three Nicci wouldn't have been able to force him to go to Altur'Rang, and so many other things wouldnt have happened. So i don't see why Richard just doesn;t go, who released the chimes? Who saved me from the plague? etc, you get me?

[Mazrim_Taim]

He mentions these things as well over time, keep reading. It's just everyone else has a different memory of these events.

[BenIII]

Oh, yeah, let me add one

Chainfire - Balefire - Do basically the same thing. Chainfire causes whatever is touched by it to have never existed, while Balefire causes whatever is touched by it to not have exitsted for a few seconds to a few hours before it was touched.


If you enjoy SoT, though, good for you. Personally, I abhor the series, but what another person likes is none of my business.

[mystar]

Oh, yeah, let me add one

Chainfire - Balefire - Do basically the same thing. Chainfire causes whatever is touched by it to have never existed, while Balefire causes whatever is touched by it to not have exitsted for a few seconds to a few hours before it was touched.


If you enjoy SoT, though, good for you. Personally, I abhor the series, but what another person likes is none of my business.



Well, that is entirely incorrect. Chainfire is spell that causes the events, both on paper and in the mind of others, of a single person to be eliminated from existence through the use of Subtractive Magic. This Event however, attempts to create a contradiction, breaking the Wizards 9th Rule. Its only defense is the Boxes of Orden.

It is a spell that is invoked upon a "person". No one "touches" Chainfire. When invoked it causes the memory of this person to disappear, as if this person never existed. Memories, thoughts, and things that person has done or interacted with all cease to exist and new memories of events, places and/or any interaction are formed cause a contradiction.


so you see, it is a very different kind of thing.:cheers:

[Tenaka]

Hey mystar, any idea when the next book is coming out?

I think one thing i liked about Chainfire was that Richard didn't fix everything at the end. All the other books tend to have everything sorted out and come to a close only for another thing to pop up next book, but i really liked at the end of Chainfire how Kahlan was still "forgotten"

[mystar]

Hey mystar, any idea when the next book is coming out?

I think one thing i liked about Chainfire was that Richard didn't fix everything at the end. All the other books tend to have everything sorted out and come to a close only for another thing to pop up next book, but i really liked at the end of Chainfire how Kahlan was still "forgotten"

I was not at first enamored with Chainfire, but as I finished it, I understood where Goodkind was going with it. Then we also have to consider that it is in fact a three-part story.

I had argued with Terry while he was writing the book about cliffhangers. I hate them and so does he, he said however that he will not have a dead end "cliffhanger", but the current problem will be resolved, while leaving the bigger problem out there.

When he was writing Phantom, we talked a great deal of the responses out there of Chainfire and the ending of Phantom. When I finished Phantom (Terry had warned me I would be rather annoyed), I was to say the least screaming "Terry I'll get you for this!!!!", to which he said he couldn't end it any other way.....

Chainfire is a three part story and we are not going to have all the answers until book #11:grumbles: But...what is...is.

As for when Phantom will be out the street date is a strict July 18.
I've read the manuscript and I really like it. I really enjoyed the roller coaster ride this book offers. We see some questions answered that we started asking right away in WFR. We learn a great deal of Richards mother in this book, we see several answers that we didn't even know about. And we see a frightening build up toward the final book.


If you are interested We will be having the one and only Book signing for Phantom July 28 and I've arranged a "special" meet Terry Goodkind in person" event for July 29. At the meet Terry Goodkind event, everyone will have personal time with Terry. Terry will field questions, take time to talk with you, pose for pictures with you and just hang out with the fans. It is a five-hour hang with Terry Goodkind thing. Get to know him and his works better.

I did this last year and it was a blast!

If you want, contact me for the details.

[Tidus]

Ahh shit, i just read all those posts, im such an idiot.:grumbles:

[Mazrim_Taim]

Hmm...I liked Chainfire in that the beginning Was so mysterious and the phrase "WTH IS GOING ON?" comes up more often than not. It was the sole factor of the book which made it a really good book in my opinion, and more intrigueing and compelling than the previous two books.

[Kimya-san]

Hmm...I liked Chainfire in that the beginning Was so mysterious and the phrase "WTH IS GOING ON?" comes up more often than not. It was the sole factor of the book which made it a really good book in my opinion, and more intrigueing and compelling than the previous two books.

I agree. I spent the entire book wondering how Richard was going to fix it. ANd I was glad that everything wasn't wrapped up in a nice little bow at the end since I don't really like books that end that way.

[mystar]

Then your gonna get a big kick out of "Phantom".

[Albanianwolfe]

All thanks to T.Goodkind for being on time as far as release dates as well as putting out thought provoking unconventional and thouroughly enjoyable epic fantasy. Zeddicus still rules!

[magatsu17]

My favorite part about Chainfire is that Kahlan was not in most of the book. I thought it was great. Wish that stupid bitch would disappear for real. If so it might become my favorite book series out there.

[Tidus]

She had one chapter in the whole book. Which i have to say i liked alot, i was hoping Kahlan would be pushed out of the series and Richard would get it on with Nicci myself.:D

[BenIII]

Well, that is entirely incorrect. Chainfire is spell that causes the events, both on paper and in the mind of others, of a single person to be eliminated from existence through the use of Subtractive Magic. This Event however, attempts to create a contradiction, breaking the Wizards 9th Rule. Its only defense is the Boxes of Orden.

It is a spell that is invoked upon a "person". No one "touches" Chainfire. When invoked it causes the memory of this person to disappear, as if this person never existed. Memories, thoughts, and things that person has done or interacted with all cease to exist and new memories of events, places and/or any interaction are formed cause a contradiction.

I have to admit that I've only read WFR-NE, so I know very little about the subject. From what you've described, Chainfire does seem to be rather different from Balefire,so I spoke in ignorance on that one.

I'm rather interested in what you have to say about the other similarities, though. Read my post a couple of posts above the Chainfire one.

EDIT: You know, the cool thing is that this topic has spanned a period of three years. I just noticed that I posted in it a few years back.

[zaren]

Decent series, but just some of the death and rape was too much and sometimes seemingly unneeded. Like he just stuck it in there to have more nekkid people doing the nasty.

[Mazrim_Taim]

he does that for shock value to emphasise the evil characters usually. I think it's entirely necessary for the kind of writing he's trying to do (good vs. evil etc, and it's hard to make the evil side seem evil these days when our culture is so desensitised to violence and sexual matters, so he made them more extreme)

[Mazrim_Taim]

Ok take this!
I was reading The Histories (Herodotus) last night, and I found a rather familiar military tactic, which leads me to be convinced that Terry Goodkind is Very familiar with the book and other ancient greek literature.
While I'm reading H's account of the HUGE Persian force invading Greece (H numbers it somewhere around 3-5 million men, including non-fighting troops), I can't help but be reminded of Emperor Jagang invading the midland with a similar grandiose army. Even the ideals of the men (Jagang=Cyrus/Darius/Xerxes, but in particular Xerxes since he had the biggest invasion of greece) are similar, lead their armies from the rear, and basically whip their slaves on so to say, against the outnumbered but furiously fighting Greeks (of whom the Spartans remind me of the Dharan army)
Anyway, I was reading, and there was an account of the feud between the Thessalians (where Thessalonica is in Eastern mainland Greece) and the Phocians. When the Thessalians once attacked the Phocians, a brilliant Phocian commander, while his town was besieged, devised the following tactic: he got 600 of his men together, and prepared a night attack, but painted them in whitewash so 1. they'd recognize their own troops and kill men who weren't all white, and 2. unnerve the opponants by making them think they're attacked by ghosts, and what do you know, it worked! routed the Thessalian army, which these people later went over to the Persians, and, in revenge, told them where every single Phocian settlement was that they knew of, which the Persians devastated, raping and killing many women as they went.
This couldn't help but remind me of the occasion where Kahlan defends the midland against the first Imperial Order army (using a night attack identical to mentiond above), as well as the fate of most of the cities that are sacked by Jagang's men. So who knew Terry G got a lot of his stuff from ancient literature? Cool stuff.

[UR_VILE_WEDGE]

A word of caution. Herodotus's manpower claims are ridiculously exaggerated. Take the 3-5 million men example. A 19th century German marching column of 30,000 men covers some 14 miles, and that is without a supply train. Now, Xerxes's army did not have some of the bulky things that a german column would have (artillery), but they are likely to have a much looser marching formation, so lets assume that things are about the same. If that is the case, a 4,200,000 man strong army would stretch 1960 miles, which means as the head of his army reaches the Hellespont, the tail end is still in Susa. Herodotus is incredibly gullible.

[Mazrim_Taim]

I never said I believed the number, but hey, that's part of the story. He also never "says" that is the number he believes marches (in fact there are a ton of things in that book that he doesn't believe, but he writes it down anyway because that is what his "inquirees" tell him), but is the number the persian claim to have that kind of power (either case it was a Huge army for that time certainly, though almost all of the persian army was really light infantry with little to no armor)
Same thing with the 300 spartans. There were 300 spartans (and these are the elite best of the best Lacedemonian soldiers) with king Leonidas at the Beginning of the battle of Thermopylae, but they also had their helot servents with them who assumedly fought alongside them. And that doubles the number at least, not to mention the Thesbians fought alongside the spartans when they were making it possible for the rest of the army to retreat.
Still, it is undoubtably from Herodotus's story that Terry G. gets most of the inspiration for his Imperial Order armies, whose numbers are equally ridiculous realistically (but it's a fantasy novel, and that's ok)

[UR_VILE_WEDGE]

The helots would have faught, but as a light skirmisher force, in a narrow pass like Thermapolye, they would have been rather useless. And it is true, that the assorted greek city states sent roughly 7000 men. At a narrow pass like Thermapolye, maybe 60 men could walk and fight abreast. With a phalanx formation, the persians wouldn't have gotten close. (I have no idea where I am going with this) Persian bows at the time are not nearly as effective as a medieval one would be (I'm not even certain the persians had fletching for their arrows) With the spears held at a 45 degree angle in the back rows, raking the defending force with arrows would be difficult, if not impossible. Meh, some other interesting factoids of the battle.

Leonidas was accused of fraud, and was trying to avoid spending time at home to prolong the trial.
He also sent the non-spartan troops home on the third day of the battle. However, it seems likely that most of them deserted long before he gave the order.

umm. some other things. When Herodotus says that "someone told me xxxxxxxxxx" he means that someone told him, but he didn't believe it (it's more apparant if you read it in Greek) Some interesting things Herodotus didn't belive.....
The nile is fed by melting snow. Actually the white Nile (which is longer, if not as voluminus as the blue nile) is indeed fed by melting snow. Herodotus apparantly didn't know about temperture decreasing with elevation.
(my personal favorite) remember that sailor he talks about, the one that says if you sail far enough south, the constellations change? Actually, I find it astounding that someone in the mediterranian world had managed to sail below the equator. It's not exactly the thing someone would make up.

[Mazrim_Taim]

not only below the equator, but the first recorded voyage around Africa no less, from the Red Sea (which he calls the Arabian Sea I think, and the Red Sea is the Indian Ocean) to the "Pillars of Heracles" (Gibralter)
But I finally finished it.
Question: what is the persian force actually believed to have consisted of?
Because in his account H. says that the "remainder" of the forces while Xerxes "removed himself for safety reasons" and left a good chunk of his forces behind under one general is 300,000.
So could the persian force have numbered even that much? Or perhaps 1/2 a million to give some credit to Herodotus's exaggeration?
And I think H. says that some greek forces desert and others are ordered by Leonides to retreat. The force that had been established there was mainly a scout force, not that strong, and hadn't been expecting an attack that soon (so H says)
Oh yes, and Artemisia (the warrior queen) is said to have fought at Salamis and done something Very crafty. While being chased by an Athenian vessel (the greeks considered it shameful for a woman (who was Greek!)to be fighting against them, and so had a reward for her capture) she Rams into a Persian vessel, and in the confusion, not only does the Athenian ship stop pursuing her (considering her a fellow greek ship by ramming a persian ship) the persians on show with Xerxes (watching the battle take place under the shade no doubt) think that She rammed into a Greek ship! And praised her! I mean I guess this could happen to a vessel the persians aren't too familiar with one of their own (they did have a lot, and I do believe that the numbers for the fleet were somewhat realistic at least; as well as the fact that their ships comprised mainly of men from Phoenicia and other places)
Anyway, she kinda reminds me of Kahlan in her cunning warrior queen kind of way, and even though H. doesn't say too much about her, she must have been an incredible woman considering the subjection of greek women at that time.

[Seniave]

Well, i dunno...SoT is OK, but its not the best.

[Bavarian Raven]

...SOT is better then WOT...WOT is a bit too complicated, especially towards the end of the series so far...and the characters seem more realistic in SOT...

[Hagazussa]

I do not agree. Sword of Truth is also one of my favorite Fantasy universes. Yes the characters are better, but I like the story in Wheel of Time better. Also the magick system is far superior in Wheel of Time where Sword of Truth's magick system can be a bit chaotic at times. Also in the middle of SOT it is like the author go bored and just finishes the series. I would say it is a matter of taste, but it is also clear far more research and ground work went into Wheel of Time.

[Bavarian Raven]

...while what u said is true...it's more to the fact that magic is mostly a side note -though the goodguys will need it to win-and that humans can win against evil is the main story line...nevertheless i do like WOT...:cheers:

[mystar]

Man, it has been a while since I've popped in....life kinda happens I guess...

So, how is everyone doing and are you ready for the final book of the current story line in the Sword of Truth series?

First off, to kind of answer you guys just above me, I can easily see where the magic within Goodkind’s world seems sort of disjointed, it was specifically meant to be like that. Goodkind has said all along that his use of magic was a metaphor, and from the beginning of his series (WFR), magic had already been hampered due to the subtractive side having been bound and sent away along with the Temple of the Winds 3,000 years ago. That fact along with the fact that the Chimes were loosed by Kahlan, then finally banished by Richard, brings us to understand that magic is not functioning, as it should. The Chimes have left a taint on magic causing much to worry about. This taint also has been helping to degrade magic and its ability to function.

I just finished reading a proof of "Confessor", and I honestly feel that this book will appease many who felt the series had gone off track, or called it to preachy.
The time for speeches is over and the final conflict is at hand...After reading an advanced proof, I can say Goodkind saves the absolute best for last!

The book (while not spoiling any of it), a masterful work of spellbinding proportions brings to conclusion The Sword of Truth series…as we know it! It is 100% cover to cover, a non-stop action packed thrill ride. After the first 100 pages I felt like I'd been on the receiving end of the initial kick off of the Super Bowl and both sides decided to tackled me for good measure. My body ached from head to toe. But Goodkind wasn’t even remotely beginning to get his story underway. Each and every page contains action, intrigue, hidden truths, answers and revelations that will cause you to go back to what you thought you knew, but were mistaken!

Goodkind has truly mastered his craft providing a rich and colorfully engrossing story to a hungry reader. With most of Goodkind readers being of or from mainstream fiction, Goodkind again proves his ability to transcend Genres, as he reaches out to the fantasy genera, offering the world of sci-fi/fantasy readership a chance to catch a glimpse into some good story telling.

This book will make you smile, cause you to stand up and cheer, jump in anxious anticipation fearing to turn the next page…fearing what you will find… and this book will cause you to weep as well. Goodkind has cast a Wizards Web, seamless and irresistibly drawing you ever deeper into his world. I could not put this book down. My mind would not allow me to sleep or rest, as this story would not be denied.

Goodkind’s masterful talents have surpassed the bounds of reality. As you read this story your mind will see, smell, hear and even taste the world in which Richard and Kahlan exist. You will feel each and every tremor of impact. You will have to go back and re-read several pages as your mind tries to wrap itself around the words, desperately trying to keep up with who’s doing what and where!

No more waiting! No more wondering! No more will we say "I wonder" as Goodkind draws you to the inexorable truth and finality. This is more than just a book, more than a story...this book will fever awaken the passion, the desire and finally the master you always knew you could be.

[mystar]

...SOT is better then WOT...WOT is a bit too complicated, especially towards the end of the series so far...and the characters seem more realistic in SOT...




I do not agree. Sword of Truth is also one of my favorite Fantasy universes. Yes the characters are better, but I like the story in Wheel of Time better. Also the magick system is far superior in Wheel of Time where Sword of Truth's magick system can be a bit chaotic at times. Also in the middle of SOT it is like the author go bored and just finishes the series. I would say it is a matter of taste, but it is also clear far more research and ground work went into Wheel of Time....



Personally I don't think either series is better or worse than the other or even ASOIAF for that matter. It truly is a matter of personal preference and taste.

Each story has within it themes, situations, events and characters that speak differently to different people. Each has elements that some may find unbelievable, while still others find them exciting and gripping.

I've come to realize that every ones has a correct opinion, its just based on his or her own perceptions and expected out comes either being realized or unfulfilled.


Any comments?