GRRM [Archive] - The Wheel of Time

val7

5th December 2002, 16:58

Funny quote from aSoS:
"I never win anything," Dolorous Edd complained. "The gods always smiled on Watt, though. When the wildlings knocked him off the Bridge of Skulls, somehow he landed in a nice deep pool of water. How lucky was that, missing all those rocks?"
"Was it a long fall?" Grenn wanted to know. "Did landing in the pool of water save his life?"
"No," said Dolorous Edd. "He was dead already, from that axe in his head. Still, it was pretty lucky, missing the rocks."

:D

mindphone

22nd January 2003, 16:12

a song of ice and fire owns every other fantasy series ever created so hard. nothing tops the goodness of it. lets hope G.R.R.M doesn't let it go stale like some *cough* other authors.....heheh :D

val7

22nd January 2003, 21:08

not mentioning any names...

*cough*goodkind*cough*rj*cough*
hey, I have a cold ;)

James

23rd January 2003, 04:59

who is GRRM? I'm intensely curious after reading that quote

LaughingTurtle

23rd January 2003, 10:23

George R. R. Martin

Great author

~nods~

mindphone

23rd January 2003, 12:23

Originally posted by LaughingTurtle

Great author

thats an understatement.
it took me a bit to get into the first book but after about 150 pages i was hooked and the story has been progressively more incredible through every installment. i am so unbelievably excited about a feast for crows.
i think the thing that really gets me about GRRM's writing is that he has a real knack for creating really incredible human interaction. jordan's stories may be interesting but the dialogue is flat and riddled with cliches - martin's characters seem to have a life of their own rather than depending on any stereotypes.
plus, unlike most fantasy authors, you can't guess what is going next. with most series its so disgustingly obvious that the main characters will make it out alright at the end of every book that it becomes tedious. with a song of ice and fire martin has made so many strong characters that if one gets put out of commission it does not slow the story down a bit. also, the end of each of the three books in a song of ice and fire so far have been some of the coolest endings ever, yet still leave the reader desperate for more. i'm sorry, but nothing RJ has ever done comes close to the ending moments of a storm of swords.....holy fuck, that was mind-bogglingly good. :)

LaughingTurtle

23rd January 2003, 14:11

Quite true MP....I'm lazy so I left it up for others to elaborate :D

GRRM has also provoked some of the strongest emotions i've ever felt from just reading a book....esp when he's "taken a character out of commission" Not for the faint of heart as he truely does portray cruel midieval life to it's fullest. Downright nasty in spots heh. Each book is packed to the limit with juciy plot goodies and it's so well done that it grabs you by the neck and never gives you time to catch your breath and only lets go when you reach the last page. But then as MP said, you'll only be thirsting for the next one. (*cough* unlike a certain other author we know *cough* ) You really do not know what will happen next.

Very much recommend

mindphone

23rd January 2003, 14:35

Originally posted by LaughingTurtle
GRRM has also provoked some of the strongest emotions i've ever felt from just reading a book....

me too! :)

i also, cannot reccomend a song of ice and fire enough to anyone who has never read it :)

James

24th January 2003, 03:05

well I'm convinced. I'll buy a couple of his books tomorrow :)

mindphone

24th January 2003, 07:54

there is three of them right now in the series:

book 1: a game of thrones
book 2: a clash of kings
book 3: a storm of swords

the fourth, a feast for crows, comes out in april.

again, it took me a little bit to get into the first one but once it gets going it does not stop. i can't tell you how much this series will kick your ass. everyone i have ever recomended it to has come out of self-imposed isolation two weeks after beginning a game of thrones, having finished all the books in one stint, to tell me how much they loved them.

when both series are finished, i am convinced that wot will be a mere shadow compared to a song of ice and fire.

James

24th January 2003, 07:59

:eek:

mindphone

24th January 2003, 08:34

dead honest. its that good.

James

26th January 2003, 02:40

I am such an idiot. I went to town the other day intending on buying one or all of his books but I got so distracted with getting a haircut and buying clothes that I completely forgot. Next time for sure

baxts

26th January 2003, 03:44

yeah, i dont recomend them as highly as some, but for sheer unpredictablity, they are incredible!! GRRM is willing to do anything, he follows none of the "rules" of fantasy, but just does what he thinks is funny, or would make a cool twist, makes for a very...interesting...read at least

val7

26th January 2003, 14:25

and it's kind of refreshing to read an author who's not afraid to kill off major characters.
(warning: if you are easily offended by certain words, be warned that GRRM uses them very casually and often, and if you don't like graphic scenes, violent and... other..., don't read the books.)

But they're still some of my favorite books! :D

Tayhlon

26th January 2003, 17:50

Well, I must admit that I read all of the second book (first one I got) and wasn't all that impressed. I skimmed through the first, and still didn't like it. I think it drug on a little much for my taste.
It is also disconcerting to realize that the author holds absolutely no character sacred.

val7

26th January 2003, 19:20

:eek:

baxts

26th January 2003, 19:29

but thats the unpredictablity thing that puts him apart from all the others, its what gives his books their charachter. I dont rate his writing that high, but its that NEVER knowing whats coming that makes them interesting

mindphone

27th January 2003, 11:32

Originally posted by Tayhlon
Well, I must admit that I read all of the second book (first one I got)

thing is, you dont do that in a fantasy series. if that was the first one you got then wait and actually buy the series-opener.

baxts, as far as his writing style goes i tend to disagree. when i read fantasy i like my characters to actually feel like real individuals not cardboard cutouts with voices (brooks, jordan, goodkind etc.). martin is able to make each one of his characters unique, in that they have an extremely unique voice, and have them push the plot ahead. not once in any of the books have i been board for a chapter. i cant say that for wot where sometimes there is 100 pages straight of absolute mind-numbing bullshit. also, i dont think the killing off of characters is so much martin's 'gimmick' as it is a way to make things more interesting....it also shows that martin has created such a strong cast in his novels that he does not have to bank on particular people.

archely

27th January 2003, 15:28

i don't even know that it's a way to make things more interesting (which it does, i agree) as to make things more realistic. Nice guys don't always finish first, and the chips don't always fall your way. Sometimes you get the royal screw-job.

Edit: I should probably clarify that i definitely mean "more realisitic" in a specific, limited sense. It is, after all, a fantasy series. ;)

QuirkyTemplate

28th January 2003, 18:07

You all should read GRRM's vampire book, Fevre Dream. This is the single best vampire book ever. No useless vampire sex, no crappy vampire POV, no typical goth crap.

But yeah, song totally blows away everything else. Stephen King's Dark Tower series is kind of fantasy and it's the only other thing that might top it.

archely

28th January 2003, 19:07

i do have to say though, based on the pic at www.georgerrmartin.com martin's beard is far scarier than RJ's...

QuirkyTemplate

28th January 2003, 19:19

>seconds that<

With a beard that powerful, it's strange he hasn't taken over the earth. He must be a very benevolent man.

val7

30th January 2003, 20:28

i saw a pic of RJ and GRRM shaking hands at some convention. It was scary! They both had freaky hats, some kind of cane/stick thing, big glasses (you know, the ones that change in the sunlight or whatever...), and big scary beards!
I could dig the pic up, but that would waste my valuable time ;).

James

31st January 2003, 03:22

feaky. maybe they're part of some sort of authors cult, and the canes and hats and glasses are part of their, um, cult apparel

Malcor Sylverwood

31st January 2003, 18:09

~dons flame retardant suit~

I'll be the lone voice of dissention. I've just finished a game of thrones. And I do intent to read the rest, so there is still hope. And everything should be considered just to this point But to this point, meh.

That's right, meh.

Now, let me clarify some points right up front, a lot of it is just style. I really do prefer high fantasy, which to this point this series is not. I also think Martin tends to jump a little to quickly most times, anytime I wanted to start caring, he'd jump to another story line.

That being said, the main problem I have is I just don't care. None of the characters have given me enough to give a damn. There are some characters I do kind of like, but none that I really care about.

And as far as the characters not being cliched? I don't see that either. About all of them are close to the same archetypes I see in just about everything.

Anyway, all just IMO and to this point.

-Malcor "Fireproof" Sylverwood

mindphone

31st January 2003, 18:24

Originally posted by Malcor Sylverwood
~dons flame retardant suit~

I'll be the lone voice of dissention. I've just finished a game of thrones. And I do intent to read the rest, so there is still hope. And everything should be considered just to this point But to this point, meh.

That's right, meh.

Now, let me clarify some points right up front, a lot of it is just style. I really do prefer high fantasy, which to this point this series is not. I also think Martin tends to jump a little to quickly most times, anytime I wanted to start caring, he'd jump to another story line.

That being said, the main problem I have is I just don't care. None of the characters have given me enough to give a damn. There are some characters I do kind of like, but none that I really care about.

And as far as the characters not being cliched? I don't see that either. About all of them are close to the same archetypes I see in just about everything.

Anyway, all just IMO and to this point.

-Malcor "Fireproof" Sylverwood

well, for one thing, i do believe that a clash of kings is the weakest of the books so far - i still really liked it - but the other two are far superior in my opinion.
i had a problem liking a lot of characters at first as well but i found that was because i was so used to being weened on straight good and straight evil in other fantasy evil. once more of the nuances came out in particular characters (tyrion for example) i really started rooting for particular ones, despite sometimes vile behaviour.
in defence of the storyline, it is very complex and there are a lot of factions in it but i think you'll find that as you progress in the series things will start having a lot more rythm, flow and generally make more sense in the overall scheme of things.
i don't see where the cliche characters thing comes from - obviously there have to be bad characters but in aSoIaF they come off more human to in my opinion. which is really cool.

plus, the others scare me more than any other group has in a fantasy series. *shudder*

Malcor Sylverwood

31st January 2003, 18:48

~shrugs~ Soulstealer told me about the same thing, I don't have a problem with ambiguous characters, heroes with flaws, villians with redeeming characteristing, loons, or anything in between. But, these chars fall flat to me for somereason, I really just don't care.

As far as the characters being cliched, I guess that comes from them not surprising me at all. The only one that's come close is the one you mentioned, Tyrion, but I think thats just because it took me a little longer to figure him out.

~shrugs~

I've certainly read worse ;)

-Malcor "Not even smouldering yet--and not complaining" Sylverwood

Erillin

31st January 2003, 19:58

When I read the first two books, a couple of the characters did seem somewhat one dimensional and cliched, especially some of the villain types (the Lannisters in particular, except for Tyrion). Once you understand their motivations, even they become really cool and well thought out characters.

These are perhaps the only books I've read where I'm not sure who is going to win in the end, but I'm kind of rooting for the Targaryens.

Malcor, if you don't like it you should be shot and killed, reanimated, drowned and killed, reanimated, electrocuted and killed, reanimated, and then tortured by Semhirage for all of eternity. Actually, I can respect your opinion, but still have to disagree with it.

Scumbag

Malcor Sylverwood

31st January 2003, 22:14

oooh...thats a little toastier. Thanks.

~shrugs~ Its not a matter of like or dislike some much as it is indifference at this point. Eventually I'll scrounge up the second book, and I'll let you know how it goes.

-Malcor "Not quitting" Sylverwood

val7

1st February 2003, 14:07

everyone is entitled to their own opinion, except when they're wrong. :p

QuirkyTemplate

2nd February 2003, 18:47

I think GRRM intentionally makes some characters stereotypical. Like the spoiled boy king Jeofrey (or some name like that), who is absolutely hilarious with this, "Have them battle to the death" over anything at all. And there are others too, Ser Floras (sp?) who is a typical anime pretty boy type dude. Man, that just cracked me up when he was in the tourney picking flowers before he jousted. :)

James

3rd February 2003, 06:18

Originally posted by QuirkyTemplate
Like the spoiled boy king Jeofrey (or some name like that), who is absolutely hilarious with this, "Have them battle to the death" over anything at all.

On Family Guy, Stuey done the same thing with two butlers, it was hilarious :D

QuirkyTemplate

5th February 2003, 18:28

These books do have one down side though. There's a whole lot of gratuitous sex thrown in. Not sure what the deal with that is ...

Nick al'Isen

5th February 2003, 22:57

Uhh...downside? ;)

BTW, I just started this series, am about a third of the way through the first book, and I'm enjoying it immensely. I can already see how this series could rival WOT.

val7

6th February 2003, 18:19

could rival WoT?
aSoIaF doesn't rival WoT. It already won.
;)

Nick al'Isen

6th February 2003, 20:50

I'm begining to agree with this. I suspect by the time I finish book one I'll be a convert.

mindphone

6th February 2003, 21:07

Originally posted by val7

aSoIaF doesn't rival WoT. It already won.

she speaks truth :)

Malcor Sylverwood

20th February 2003, 17:08

~shrugs~ I will say this tho, A Storm of Swords is considerably better than the first two books. There were actually bits of it I enjoyed . Its still not a terribly good series, IMO, but it shows some glimmer of hope by at least improving. On the down side, the whole "I'm dead"--"No wait, I'm not" is getting a bit tired.

Time will tell the rest. :D

-Malcor "Still flame resistant" Sylverwood

val7

20th February 2003, 17:36

GRRM's only resurrected a few characters, only one of them is really important.

your're still wrong. :p GRRM is the best.

Malcor Sylverwood

20th February 2003, 17:58

You must count much more loosely then me ;)

And no, he isn't. Neither is Jordan tho.

-Malcor "JRR" Sylverwood

Aragorn

20th February 2003, 18:43

Damn straight.

mindphone

20th February 2003, 21:14

Originally posted by val7
your're still wrong. :p GRRM is the best.

damn straight :cool:

James

2nd March 2003, 05:19

I finally got around to buying A Game of Thrones yesterday, and while I've only just started I love it already :)

*lines up his De-Throner for certain use on RJ*

val7

2nd March 2003, 15:24

another convert! :D

archely

2nd March 2003, 17:04

hmm....let's all go find a GRRM mb....

:eek: *gasp*

~sees mob approaching with torches and pitchforks~

heh

acesn8s

4th March 2003, 15:22

For those who don't like GRRM . . . try Guy Gavrel Kay's Fionvar Trilogy.

Another amazing fantasy author. I actually lost my copies and have to head to the book store to get another set. :sad:

Byrn

23rd May 2003, 23:00

I have just finsished the chapter after the "wedding" at the Frey's. Needless to say I am shocked and a bit pissed. I'll rant, but her's a spolier warning for those of you who aren't to this point yet.

SPOILERS**************

Dear God, how could he kill Robb and Catelyn? Robb was too cool. All I have to say is, a Lannister needs to bite it soon. Preferably Jaime or Tywin. Now the only cool Starks left are Jon and Arya.

val7

24th May 2003, 10:43

keep reading... ;)

I was a mad too, because it happened a little too quickly, but....

mindphone

26th May 2003, 08:14

Originally posted by val7
keep reading... ;)

:D damn the ending of that book is shiver-inducingly good.

I WANT THE NEW ONE DAMMIT! :mad:

Byrn

29th May 2003, 22:23

August is too far away.

~joins Mindphone in demand for a Feast of Crows~

I just finished the book about 30 minutes ago!!!!

Aragorn

4th June 2003, 01:27

I'm not so sure about that August release. Martin himself said don't trust anything Amazon says.

James

8th June 2003, 18:18

finaly finished all the books. this is possibly the best fantasy series I've ever read.

hell, who am I kidding. It is without a doubt the best!

***
maybe spoilers here...

man, I was so sure catelyn was dead and gone. wouldn't have really minded too much if she was. also glad that little freak joff is dead. man I hated him. also glad lysa is dead. hated her too. my favourite characters are Dany, Arya, Jon, Jaime and Dolorous Edd :)

oh, and I can't believe he killed Lord Tywin. Sure he kinda deserved it and I like that Tyrion did it but it just doesn't seem right

Aragorn

8th June 2003, 19:11

Tyrion rules so much.

mindphone

9th June 2003, 00:29

Originally posted by James
finaly finished all the books. this is possibly the best fantasy series I've ever read.

hell, who am I kidding. It is without a doubt the best!

it's awesome hearing people's reactions after they have finished the first three books. fucking hell GRRM rocks so hard :D

James

9th June 2003, 06:33

heheh

The fat leather-bound volume was full of songs and stories from the seven kingdoms. Children's stories, if truth be told; too simple and fanciful to be true history. All the heroes were tall and handsome, and you could tell the traitors by their shifty eyes

now why does that make me think of wot? ;)

Byrn

12th June 2003, 14:20

Actually it's a Reference to LOTR.

James

12th June 2003, 17:59

Yeah, those Hobbits were pretty tall :dozey:

Byrn

12th June 2003, 18:09

Eh, maybe you are forgeting the Elves, Aragorn, Gandalf, Faramir, Eowyn, Wormtoungue...the list goes on.

BenIII

2nd July 2003, 15:57

GRRM is a close second to Robert Jordan...... Incredible author, he is.

val7

2nd July 2003, 19:16

SECOND?!?!?!?!?!?!?! :eek:

BenIII

2nd July 2003, 23:06

Why, yes; second. GRRM lacks a bit in the nationality-building department.

Aragorn

3rd July 2003, 01:43

Rather, he's a DISTANT second, behind Tolkien.

Jordan's a very close third.

James

4th July 2003, 05:36

You know nothing!

Aragorn

4th July 2003, 15:12

What you really mean is "I love you". :love:

BenIII

4th July 2003, 15:34

Tolkien is grossly over-rated.

snake0024

9th July 2003, 22:33

I usually end up defending Jordan on various bords, but Martin, second to Jordan? Hell no Jordan isnt even in Martin's class, the only author that is is Steven Erikson, but his books arent available in the States yet(order them off amazon.ca or amazon.co.uk) but even Erikson isnt as good as Martin(but its close)
Forall those that like Martin I would highly recomend getting a copy of his books:

1. Gardens of The Moon
2. Deadhouse Gates
3. Memories of Ice
4. House of Chains
5. Midnight Tides (coming out in Canada on 4th of December)

the books will be released in the States by Tor in early 2004

mindphone

10th July 2003, 09:30

Originally posted by snake0024
I usually end up defending Jordan on various bords, but Martin, second to Jordan? Hell no Jordan isnt even in Martin's class, the only author that is is Steven Erikson, but his books arent available in the States yet(order them off amazon.ca or amazon.co.uk) but even Erikson isnt as good as Martin(but its close)
Forall those that like Martin I would highly recomend getting a copy of his books:

1. Gardens of The Moon
2. Deadhouse Gates
3. Memories of Ice
4. House of Chains
5. Midnight Tides (coming out in Canada on 4th of December)

the books will be released in the States by Tor in early 2004

yeah, martin - far and away - has written three of the most brilliant books in high fantasy history! this erikson fellow intrigues me though, could you elaborate on the plot of his series?

back to martin.....man, i'm so ridiculously excited about a feast for crows. it's easily the book i am most looking forward to this year. the coolest part about aSoIaF is that the first three books were basically only a precursor to the real battle that is going to take place in the second half of the series - with all the supernatural shit that is starting to come down from the far north. plus in the next book dany is finally getting her ass back to her homeland to try and reclaim the throne - dragons and all! i cannot wait, and from me at this point that is saying a lot - i don't read as much fantasy as i used to nor am i finding any series particularily gripping anymore (although the runelords is shaping up pretty well, i must admit) so it is a pretty big thing that i am so pumped about a new fantasy novel. we should change wotism.net to grrmism.net. :D

snake0024

10th July 2003, 15:10

From the back of Gardens of the Moon:

Book Back
The Malazan Empire simmers with discontent, bled dry by interminable warfare, bitter infighting and bloody confrontations with the formidable Anomander Rake, lord of Moon's Spawn, and his Tiste Andii. Even the imperial legions, long inured to the bloodshed, yearn for some respite. Yet Empress Laseen's rule remains absolute, enforced by her dread Claw assassins. For Sergeant Whiskeyjack and his squad of Bridgeburners, and for Tattersail, surviving sorceress of the Second Legion, the aftermath of the siege of Pale should have been a time to mourn the many dead. But Darujhistan, last of the Free Cities of Genabackis, yet holds out and it is to this ancient citadel that Laseen turns her predatory gaze. However, it would appear that the Empire is not alone in this great game. Sinister, shadowbound forces are gathering as the gods themselves prepare to play their hand... Conceived and written on a panoramic scale, Gardens of the Moon is epic fantasy of the highest order - an enthralling adventure by an outstanding new voice.

The back of the book is confusing confusing at first, and so is the first half of Gardens of the Moon (you have to re-read it to really enjoy the book), but the series is still really good. Though Gardens of the Moon is the first book, many people start wth the second, Deadhouse Gates, then read Gardens. But to understand Memories of Ice you must read Gardens.

Arianna Sedai

24th July 2003, 00:00

yea, two GRRM threads......*practically glows with happiness*

cannot wait for A Feast for Crows

and b/c of what's been said, i think im gonna go to Amazon and order gardens of the moon while i await the hopeful september release date for a Feast for Crows...tho i may need to reread the whole SoIaF series before then cuz its been like a year since i read SoS (that's the third, right?-its been so long) i got it as soon as it came out in hardcover and read it in like 3 days (i attempted to draw it out, didn't really work) i hate it when sequals take so long to come out...i want the next one NOW....