Is Rand really LTT? Or seperate?

[Elayne Sedai]

:confused: Is Rand really LTT or is he himself? We always here LTT gibbering away in Rands head, so that would have to make them two very different people. Also, in the first book, didn't LTT send down balefire on himself, thus ending him for good? I'm so confused some one help me!

[Berk]

Hi Elayne,

It is not clear from book one (just finished it again) that LTT balefired himself, only that he blasted himself with something. If it was balefire and he was using so much that he killed himself, well then everything he did in those last few seconds never happened, like making Dragonmount come up, and possibly even going so far back as to never having been given his sanity back.

So, I vote no; it was not balefire

[jUstIn]

where's darius when you need him. i've argued this point w/ him, and it remains unclear

the dark one can't undo balefire but maybe the creator can,
or is the dragon the creator?

[R'eon]

how does that work?

If you Balefired yourself with a big enough beam and erased yourself from the Pattern before you Balefired yourself.....

arrrrggggghhh!!!! the paradox

[Theoban]

RJ said in an interview that LTT didn't balefire himself, but that he just drew way too much of the OP.

He also stated that you could still be reborn after being balefired, but not brought into a body by another force i.e the DO.

[Elayne Sedai]

Hi everyone!
I'm still not that sure what LTT did in the first book. To me it sounded a lot like he balefired himself to death, but if RJ said he didn't......then maybe.....Oh I bloody well don't know! I'll have to go look it up again. But why then is he only a vioce in Rands head?

[fitzner]

I think Lews Therin used some sort of plasma to destroy himself and not balefire. After all, RJ has a degree in Physics so he would be familiar with it and would even prefer it. As to why Lews Therin is in Rand's head, the best I can come up with so far is this:
both men are one and the same but I guess this means their core traits like how they react to their environment and how stubborn they are. Yet Lews Therin and Rand are "variations" of the same man. Understand that Lews Therin is a product of the Age of Legends which has a society that is far different than that which shaped Rand al'Thor. Mesaana commented on this I believe when she had a meeting with the other Forsaken.

[Urbal T]

I believe that Rand burned himself out trying to draw enough balefire to bring Ilyena back. He just did it so quickley and with such force that he and the ground beneath him was consumed by a balefire-like flame. As for Lews Therin in Rand's head, I think that Rand as a version of the One Who Attempts to Defeat the Dark One (OWADDO from now on) just happens to have assistance from the previous OWADDO. I don't think that the OWADDO will always be called the Dragon, but that the 2nd Age's OWADDO just got that title, and it gets passed on to Rand. It's just a perk. That, or the effects of the taint are loosening the barrier between Rand and Lews Therin Telamon. Oh yeah, why does Lews Therin seem to be mad in Rand's head, wasn't he (LTT) cleansed by Ishamael? Lews Therin also comments in Rand's head that Rand is a madman in HIS (LTT's) head...

--Ted

[Thylacine]

rand is ltt reborn, think of the pattern, one end marked age of legends other end now. now one single thread is ltt at one end and rand at the other, they are physcially different people, but are of the same thread, they have the same soul, just that its been reborn into a new physical existance.

as for ltt nattering in rands head, could be that wielding the power has weakened the barriers between now and then for ltt. just think he could be chattering to himself in the age of legends and in rands head now.
scary thought .... lol

[Byrn]

It is my understanding you cannot direct flows at yourself. So LTT's balefire caused a volcano which in turn killed LTT.

[Reuvyn]

what balefire?
when you channel more than you can handle it escapes from your control and makes a big explosion of One POWER (and you die)
From the fact he was able to reach the past the crust to the mantle (several miles) and make a volcano shows you how strong he was. (was said before)

[Kolo al'Jaden]

Everyone is reborn. Rand and LTT are no diffrent, except the fact that Rand is the supreme Ta'Verin (sp) and that since he is T'V he has a the ability to pull people to his will or the will of the pattern. His is so strongly T'V that he has pulled his now dead self out of Death into his head. Or maybe because they where both T'V they merged into a melee' in Rands head because they both pulled each other to one another... Its very complicated but it makes sence. Ok Bye.

[Reuvyn]

The Eye of The World, the Caemlyn Road pg 265 (paperback)

The Myrddraal seemed to hesitate as the humans appeared atop the hill, but in the next instant it produced a sword with the black blade Rand remembered so queasily, and waved it over his head. The line of Trollocs scrambled forward.
Even before the Myrddraal moved, Lan's sword was in his hand. "Stay with me!" he cried, and Mandarb plunged down the slope toward the Trollocs. "For the Seven Towers!" he shouted.
Rand gulped and booted the gray forward; the whole group of them streamed after the Warder. He was suprised to find Tam's sword in his fist. Caught up by Lan's cry, he found his own. "Manetheren! Manetheren!"
Perrin took it up. "Mannetheren! Manetheren!"
But Mat shouted, "Carai an Caldazar! Carai an Ellisande! Al Ellisande!"

....271

"Carai an Caldazar," Moiraine said. They all twisted to stare at her. "Carai an Ellisande. Al Ellisande. For the honor of the Red Eagle. For the honor of the Rose of the Sun. The Rose of the Sun. The ancient warcry of Manetheren, and the warcry of its last king. Eldrene was called the Rose of the Sun" ... "The blood of Arad's line is still strong in the Two Rivers. The old blood still sings."

...278

"Are you all right, Mat?" Rand said. Mat lifted the saddle from his horse, and stood holding it. "Mat? Mat!"
Mat gave a start and almost dropped the saddle. "What? Oh. I... I was just thinking."
"Thinking?" Perrin hooted from where he was replacing Mandarb's bridle with a hackamore. " you were asleep."
Mat scowled. "I was thinking about... about what happened back there. About those words I ...." Everybody turned to look at him then, not just Rand, and he shifted uneasily. "Well, you heard what Moiraine said. It's as if some dead man was speaking with my mouth. I don't like it." His scowl grew deeper when Perrin chuckled.
"Aemon's warcry she said-- right? Maybe you're Aemon come back again. the wat you go on about how dull Emond's Field is, I'd think you'd like that-- being a king and hero reborn."
"Dont say that" Thom drew a deep breath; everybody stared at him now. "That's dangerous talk, stupid talk. The dead can be reborn, or take a living body and it is not something to speak of lightly." He took another breath to calm himself before going on. "The old blood she said. The blood, not a dead man. I've heard that can happen, sometimes. Heard, though I never really thought.... It was your roots, boy. A line running from you to your father to your grandfather, right on back to Manetheren, and maybe beyond. Well, now you know your family is old. You ought to let it go at that and be glad. Most people don't know much more than that they had a father."
Some of us can't even be sure of that, Rand thought bitterly. Maybe the Wisdom was right. Light, I hope she was.


you see thom describing being reborn and also what "the old blood sings" means

[Buckweet]

I agree with Reuvyn, he did draw to much of the Power i... a whole LOT ....and the end result was kaboom =]

Besides channelers are capable of weaving the power into themselves. Look at the mirrors of mist talent for starters.

[WiseWisdom]

I'm not sure if this has been talked about before...or if it even makes sense. But...

Just before Rand grabbed up Callandor, Ish(It was him, wasn't it?) tried to "steal his soul" or something like that. Exactly what does that mean? My thought was that perhaps he did something to cause Rand to start hearing LTT, but I'm not sure exactly when Rand started hearing LTT so I could just be babbling. Like usual.

[val7]

He started hearing LTT around tFoH I think

[Filbertgough]

When ltt draws on the OP or any Aei Sadie They become a conduet between themselves and the source. Imagine, and I think it says this in the prolouge of book one, Connecting the ground and the sky. The person weilding it becomes the the buffer that if drawn to deeply will burn out or explode depending on the streagth or ability of the person.

[zelk]

he already 'meets' ltt in the fires of heaven. ltt speaks a few sentences and such. but he isn't actually talking to rand.

[GWINNA]

anybody see a simplarity between lews therin in Rands head and "harvy" in John kytens head(from farscape)?

[fitzner]

not sure. i mean, Crichton sees Harvey but in Rand's case, it's just a voice talking to him and sensation of what LTT seems to be doing.