Nyneave's Family

[Tatum]

I'm curious as to why Nyneave's family is rarely, if ever mentioned in the series. Even when she is going through the rings for her Accepted test and she is sent back to Emond's Field, she only talks to Egwene's mom. She is also only concerned with the horrible woman that has taken over the village. She never asks about her family. I find it strange that we are allowed at least a glimpse into all of the Emond Fielders families except Nyns. Any theories?

[Berk]

We see in book 1 that her family is all dead.

The reason Doral Barran took her as an apprentice so young was because she was recently orphaned.

[Tatum]

Hmmm, I don't remember reading that. I'm planning on rereading the series again soon so I'll have to keep an eye out for where it says that. I can't help but feel this subject may be a missed opportunity for R.J. to explain Nyn's overbearing behavior. I suppose being orphaned might start to explain it but Nyn is such a controversial character that it wouldn't suprise me if she didn't have some skeletons in the closet. Maybe R.J. will go into greater detail about her family later in the series.

[Berk]

sorry dude, i disagree.

I see no reason or potential here, but thats just me.

[Tatum]

Well, unless you are R.J. in disguise, that is neither here nor there. It's quite all right if you disagree with me but I was under the impression that this is a "THEORY" message board so don't be so quick to knock down other peoples ponderings please. :)

[Berk]

i'm a little confused.

you had a theory. i disagreed. i never posted on how you were wrong, merely on how i diasgreed and why.

[Archbishop]

Nynaeve frequently thought about how useful her father's lessons in woodcraft were. Apparently, he was around long enough for that to have occurred.

:D it would be kind of funny to find out that she was the love child of Cenn Buie and Alsbet Luhhan, though :eek:

[Berk]

in the new prologue, we find that nynaeve is 8 yrs older than egwene, who was 9 at the time of the prologue, which makes nynaeve 17 at that time. The series takes place 7 years later, when Nynaeve is 24.

However, she is already a wisdom apprentice at 17, so here father is already dead. He could have died when she was 10 or 15 leaving plenty of time to teach her.

[Tatum]

Berk: My point is that you didn't disagree, you disregarded. By saying you disagree with something that is one thing because it can initiate debate and conversation, which is the point of a theory right? But you replied to my pondering of Nyn's family by saying there was no reason or potential and that is more of a disregarding. Its really not a big deal, I just wanted to make sure that you weren't "cutting my legs out from underneath me" so to speak. :)

Archbishop: LMAO!!! Cenn and Alsbet eh? Now THAT would be a great twist in the plot!! How about Moraine and Thom? They could be Nyn's parents! That would definitely explain how Nyn was born with such a strong spark! :D

[Jacob]

Originally posted by Berk
sorry dude, i disagree.

I see no reason or potential here, but thats just me.

Abit rude, aren't you? And I really didn't take you for someone who'd use the word "dude". Anyway, I thought only guy's could be "dudes", not girls. It IS abit hard to theorise about Nynaevs family, since we don't actually know anything about them, really. I do agree that the fact that we don't know anything about them makes for some speculation though. WHY don't we know anything about them? They're dead, I agree on that, but HOW did they die? If they both died in their sleep in some fire or such, how come Nynaeve didn't die with them? Did neither of her parents have any brothers or sisters? If they didn't, then that surely seems strange to me. If Nynaeve was so young when her parents died, shouldn't there have been grandparents still alive? If either did have siblings, what happend to them? For Nynaeve to have been left completely without relatives seem quite odd to me.

[Berk]

Yes, you are right. It was rude. I apologize.

One of my (many) faults in life is that I have a huge superiority complex; I am very very arrogant about things I know much about, and sometimes I come off as rude.

I have read WoT over a dozen times, so in my mind, this is one of those things I know alot about, and when people theorize about things which I think are trivial the arrogance shows.

As to the actual theory:

People die. Especially in a medeival type setting where the life expectancy is not that high. I truly see no reason why Nynaeve has to have any family. Being an only child is not that hard. We know her parents were dead. And grandparents could have dies as well. Nynaeve is 24 at series beginning. Seeing how most girls dont braid their hair until 18 at least, her grandparents should be at least 60 if, in fact, they gave birth one year after marriage. 60 years old is rather old; most people are dead by then.

[Tatum]

Thats smart, apologize and then insult me again...

"I have read WoT over a dozen times, so in my mind, this is one of those things I know alot about, and when people theorize about things which I think are trivial the arrogance shows. "

Here's the deal. I think what you have to say is just as important as anyone else on this board. However, you seem to be missing the point. There has been so much speculation about this series that it has become difficult to find new things to talk about. Nyn's family was something that I've always been curious about and since there hasn't been a lot of discussion about it in the past, I figured it would be a fun thread to start. Yes, it is very possible that Nyn's family will never play an important role in the story, but since there hasn't been a lot of "non-trivial" discussion (as you call it) lately, I figured it would be something we could have fun discussing (as Archbishop showed us with the speculation on who her parents could've been.)

To make a long story short, if you think that a thread is beneath you as far as intellect goes, then I suggest you find another thread that is worthy of your superior insight.

On that note, we just had another earthquake so it is time for me to go, but I will be back later for more discussion on Nyns family or lack thereof.

[Jacob]

Well, okay, you didn't mean to be rude, it just happend. I tend to be condecending too sometimes, though I try hard to keep such in check. Usually I do that sort of thing when I'm not thinking though, rather than when I'm being superior...

Anyway, I dissagree with your reasoning regarding Nynaeve's parents. For one thing, I don't really see the setting as Mideival, but perhaps closer to our 19th century as far as most developments go. To say that "most people were dead before the age of 60" during that time period is statistics. You know the one about "...lies, damned lies and statistics"? In fact, during those days', most people did not die before reaching the age of 60, even if the average life expectancy might have been around that age. The main reason that the life expectancy were that low was that so many people died very young. I.e. children at birth (or atleast before the age of five) and women while giving birth. Appart from that, people could actually live fairly long lives.

Back to the original point of this thread: For all I know, there may be some interesting reason why we know nothing of Nynaeve's family. Perhaps we will learn something about that later that will add some depth to her character, or atleast our understanding of her character. I do think that most likely the killer is RJ and her family is dead for the simple reason that it fit the plot and how RJ wanted her character to be and that's that.

[Running Wolf]

Is there any record or mentioning of Nyn having some kind of early manifestation of her "ability"? I dont remember. She must have had something though, she was in training to be a Wisdom from a young age if I remember.
Smelling the weather, healing someone very sick with just some almost useless herbs......

Being head strong , maybe she got mad at her father for yelling at her, STRONGLY wished hed shut up, and stuffed an "air" sock in his mouth. Father suffocates to death :)

[Harun]

Originally posted by Jacob

Anyway, I dissagree with your reasoning regarding Nynaeve's parents. For one thing, I don't really see the setting as Mideival, but perhaps closer to our 19th century as far as most developments go

19th century? I don't really see it. Maybe medicine is better than in the Medieval world or maybe Randland just has fewer diseases or something, to explain the longer lives. But otherwise, I don't see anything like the 19th century in Randland. Almost all the countries are absolutist monarchies or feudal monarchies, there is little industrialism, and no gunpowder.

[Mann]

I always saw it as Dark ages, after the collapse of the Roman Empire (Hawkwing), before the reformation and religeous persecution, (where herb-lore was very high - better than today), and the industrial level's equivalent. After all the Chinese had gunpowder for millenia whitout making (effective) weapons out of it, and the Ancient Greeks had the technology to invent automobiles but didn't. The Roman road, and building skills are are a blatant parralel.

[Beowulf]

Well, with the introduction of Rand's schools they are just beginning to discover steam power and other things. But I still think time-period-wise it is much more primitive a society than our 19th century world in most ways.

I think it's interesting that it's been approx 3000 years and they're still barely kicking along with their carts and horses?

Maybe other factors could be blamed for that, like the Breaking and the machinations of Aes Sedai (keep the people stupid?).

Still that is three thousand years.. look at what has occured in just the last five hundred years in our world.

Tentative conclusion: We're smarter than the Randlanders.

[Harun]

You've gotta remember that a lot of technology and learning was lost in the Trolloc Wars and in the War of the Hundred Years.

[Beowulf]

Yes, I know but 3000 years is longer than we've been actively recording history. That is plenty of time to rebuild a society, imo.

They must have all been in stasis to only move such a small amount forward.

[Psinyde]

I found an RJ interview where he said

"If you want to imagine what the period is, imagine it as the late 17th century without gunpowder."

so that pretty much settles it i think :) You cant argue with da man

[Beowulf]

Sounds right to me. But I still think their society is still far too primitive than it should be.

[Mann]

Nitpicking here, but we've over 6'000 years of recorded history.

[Theoban]

Well, most societies have crumbled then never rebuilt, like the egyptians.

And it is true that we have only made any progress in the last 500 years.

[Psinyde]

But don't you think it's a bit unrealistic that one war (ableit one that lasted 100 years :) ) would set a culture back one thousand years. Sure the Trolloc War could do that, but i doubt a straightforward human v human war would do that

[Theoban]

No, because there hasn't just been one war, there's always been fighting between countries just like in real life.

Anyway, the real reason no-one has made any progress is that in the AOL everything was done by channeling, and now there's only about a quarter of the resources, due to weak channelers and insane men.

[Tatum]

Agreed. Not to mention the fact that (and it is mentioned in one of the books if I remember correctly) all of the great discoveries were made with both men and women using the one power together. Since any man who can channel is usually gentled, the amount of discoveries isn't as plentiful as it once was. Now couple that with the fact that the current Aes Sedai somewhat discourage the pursuit of new discoveries (i.e. they have storage rooms full of angreal that no one has studied in years, most keep any talents they've figured out to themselves, etc.) and you have even slower progress still.

[Elin]

Hmm... Tatum's arguments would explain why there hasn't been any progress in working with the Power, but it's also curious that there's been so little technological development. Point taken about the constant wars and stuff, but doesn't war often drive technology forward? I think that Randland has a mental reliance on the Power to do things that we would do by technology - this would quell initiative, because inventors would feel that they are infringing on the Aes Sedai's area. Naturally the Aes Sedai would discourage it, because they want to stay in power...

[Tatum]

That makes a lot of sense! And there is even support for that theory in one of the books. Remember when Rand creates the school for inventions? Not only is the school new but the idea of technological inventions is as well, and if I remember correctly, they weren't begging for students. It's like his approval has suddenly opened a floodgate of new technological ideas. These ideas would never have been able to flourish in pre-randland because, as Elin said, the Aes Sedai wouldn't approve and regular people might have thought it had something to do with the dark one.

After all, "necessity is the mother of invention" and I don't think there is a time more necessary than during the age when the dark one is breaking free.

[Psinyde]

Anyway, the real reason no-one has made any progress is that in the AOL everything was done by channeling, and now there's only about a quarter of the resources, due to weak channelers and insane men.


Not sure about that - I think it was in the Guide somwhere that alot of the technology in the AOL had nothing to do with the power, and was pure technological innovation. Can anyone back me up on that, or am i just bullshitting...

[Mann]

There were many technolical advancements previous the past 200 years, even if the rate has accelrated since.

[Archbishop]

I'll throw my two cents in. It has been estimated that in one single act we (not Randland or the USA but the entire real world) were set back nearly one thousand years technologically. When Julius Ceasar accidentally set fire to the library of Alexandria, he destroyed a vast amount of technological advancements. I can only remember a few of them, but here they are. People had figured out that the Earth was spherical not flat, that the sun was the center of our system, and some of the principles of flight had been developed. It all goes to show you that even small battles let alone wars can have drastic effects on the advancement of a civilization.

[TheDude99]

what if nyn. really did accidentally kill her family with the OP at a young age? maybe that's why she had the block of only being able to use it when angry b/c the first time she used it she was really really pissed at the family for something and they all ended up dead... that's why she took up wanting to help heal people so much b/c she used her power to kill the first time and then wasn't pissed anymore and couldn't do anything about her dead family (remember when she said something like "there's nothing short of dead that can't be healed"... i don't know, maybe i'm crazy...

[Beowulf]

that's a cool angle, it could be.