half the light of the world to save the world

[Urbal T]

Mat will destroy half the light of the world to save the world. Aldebaran mentioned about mat having to do a two-aes-sedai-on-a-scale-thing. Was this one of Min's viewings? I think they're related somehow. Anybody know of any aes sedai who've been related to light? I think the amyrlin comes to mind, seeing as there are two right now, but I don't think Mat would have to think about whether to kill Elaida or Egwene...

--Urbal T

[Hank]

Mat's probably my favorite character in the series right now. I can't wait to find out how he gets out of Seanchen territory in the next book.

Anyways, concerning the two-Aes-Sedai-on-a-scale bit, I vote for Verin vs Cadsuane. Both seem to be helping Rand but have different ulterior motives/goals. Mat might have to choose which one gets Rand in the end so to speak.

Or it could be the whole losing an eye theory. Like Odin from Norse mythology.

[Urbal T]

I don't think Mat's gonna lose his eye... that isn't half the light of the world... that's half HIS light, if it's light at all.

[Jacob]

Two theories on the "half the light"

1. Mat looses an eye.
- Support for this: Egwene has a dream of Mat gambling with the Dark One (or some such); in this dream, his face is bloody and his hat is down, covering his one eye (or such). Some reference has also been made for a Mat = Oden parallel where Oden, in order to gain knowlege (drink from the well of wisedome) paid with one of his eyes.

2. It's a metaphore for what will happen as Mat invents firearms. Firearms will help in the battle against the forces of the shadow, but at the same time, it's a terrible weapon that will make wars in the future that much worse.
- Support for that: In the same dream that Egwene had about Mat gambling witht the Dark One, there were fireworks shown in the backround and Egwene felt dread when she saw that in her dream (some such). We do know that Mat is looking for how to use fireworks as weapons.

Or course, it could be a third to. I.e. that Mat looses an eye while dabbling in inventing firearms...

[Theoban]

I think that Mat may very well lose his eye, but the giving half the light of the world doesn't entirely fit this.

Has anyone thought that maybe he has to sacrifice the entire of Seanchan to save the world? They're not particulary nice but not they're not quite all darkfriends.

[Tinkers Sword]

Mat will loose an eye - "Mat placing one of his eyes on a balance scale".

Mat is the key to the Seanchan as he will marry the DotNM. The Seanchan have control hafl the world - Rand the other half. In a lot of parallel worlds the seanchan have conquered the world jost before the Last Battle - hence the world is taken by the Shadow. The seanchan and Rand need to unite/work together in order to beat the Shadow.

Hence Mat will sacrifice his eye in some fashion in order to bring about this mutual ceasfire - save the world by giving up half the light of the world.

[Endrin al'sohl]

Mats eye was on a balance scale not Aes Sedi. I think he will give an eye to rand because the fisher king piece on the chess thing look like Rand even with the side wound but has a cloth covering his eye. Also Egwen had a dream with Rand dressed in rags with a cloth over his eyes. Also you must see the flows in order to weave them so I think Mat will give an eye to Rand therefore giving up half the light. Remember prophecies should not be taken literally.

[lan sam]

besides, wouldn't it make mat a hella cool hero of the horn if he had an eyepatch, spear, hat, and scarf? If RJ brought firearms into this series, I would have to hunt him dow and kill him.

[Byrn]

Lan, RJ is bringing in firearms. Mat is starting to look just like Clint Eastwood from Hang'em High. Tall, Lean, a scarf covering a scar.

[Fireball]

In the EOTW Min has a vision of Mat. Aside from the ruby dagger, the horn of valere, and the red eagle she mentions him placing his eye on a balance scale. Then in Tear he visits the Aelfinn and aside from their other talk they say "to give up half the light of the universe". Then finally Egwene has a dream of him weighing two Aes Sedai on a balance scale.

Look at it this way. The half the light refers to the eye ball, one out of two, half. The other dreams and visions both have to do with balance scales, there is a big similarity between the two. Right now this might have to do with rescuing Joline and another Aes Sedai in from the Seanchan. All the things tie into that. In the next book Mat Cauthon, King Aemon reborn, will most likely lose an eye.

[Night_Daughter]

King Aemon reborn? When was this?
*goes drugding back through her books*
wasn't King Aemon the king of Manethren once?

[Byrn]

I don't know where this guy gets his information, but Mat is not Aemon reborn. IF anyone is, Perrin would be. Mat remembers seeing Aemon Die. His memories of that time period come from soldiers and generals.

[SDZion]

Originally posted by Endrin al'sohl
Also Egwen had a dream with Rand dressed in rags with a cloth over his eyes. Also you must see the flows in order to weave them so I think Mat will give an eye to Rand therefore giving up half the light.

Someone's seen Matrix: Revolutions one too many times! :D

[KA3AK]

Actually Mat could be Aemon Reborn. When he was being disconnected from the dagger, he started shouting commands in Old Tongue, ordering the Band of The Red hand into battle. And that was before he got his memories from the finns.

[SDZion]

He didn't 'get' his memories from the Eelfinn. He already had fragments of the memories as some sort of warped result of his experience with the ruby-embedded dagger; his experience with the Eelfinn simply connected the memories, making them coherrent.

[Endrin al'sohl]

quote Sdzion "Someone's seen Matrix: Revolutions one too many times!"


I have never seen it.

[SDZion]

Good thing I was only joking, or I may have been credited for being a fool!

edit: :D

[KA3AK]

Originally posted by SDZion
He didn't 'get' his memories from the Eelfinn. He already had fragments of the memories as some sort of warped result of his experience with the ruby-embedded dagger; his experience with the Eelfinn simply connected the memories, making them coherrent.
No, I don't agree with you here. The experience with the dagger only created holes in Mat's memory, which the finns later filled with memories of different soldiers and generals who somehow came in contact with them in the past. I cannot recall another logical explanation for Mat's memories, so if you know it, I would be glad to hear it.

[Questioner]

This all goes back to the first three books. Moraine and others constantly remarked on how strong the 'old blood' was in the Two Rivers trio, meaning that they had all been reincarnated from "Manatheranites/Manatherians?" and because the bloodline was so pure, they had inherited memories that occasionally bubbled to the surface. The Shadar Logoth dagger ate away at Mat's soul as well as his mind, leaving lots of holes in his memories. The finn refilled these holes with all manner of gobbledigook. Technically, Mat's 'old blood' and ancient memories come from two different sources.
As for losing half the light of the world, it's going to be an eye.

[SDZion]

What the Questioner said. :D

[KA3AK]

Originally posted by SDZion
What the Questioner said. :D
You are either contradicting yourself, or you're saying that Mat's memories are a result of the whole dagger thing. In both of these cases you are wrong.

As for Questioner, I agree that Mat's memories are not connected to his blood, that's what I was saying all along. That's why Mat could be Aemon reborn.

[Fireball]

About Mat being Aemon reborn.

In chapter 18 of the Eye of the World they are fighting trollocs. Mat shouts "Carri al Caldazar! Carri al Elasande"(I don't have the book with me so that might not be the exact spelling). The first part is "For the honor of the red eagle", the symbol of Mantherin. The second is the last battlecry of Aemon, it's about his wife Elliasande. Why would anyone else be saying the KING'S last battlecry unless they were the king? Note: this is before Mat took the ruby dagger. There for this is not a result of the dagger eating at his memories. About that they just made what happened while he carried the dagger almost impossible to remember, not taking away earlier memories.

Next, in Tar Valon, Mat again says those words at his healing. He is recalling, as Aemon, a battle during the Trolloc Wars where he ordered the orginal Band of the Red Hand to battle. This is all before he went to the Eelfinn. These memories are there for geniune. Those after Rhudein are just memories of generals from various battles during the entire Trolloc Wars to the end of Hawkwing's reign.

[Byrn]

RE-read that section again, That was a battle cry used by Most Soldiers of Manetheren.

[Dregs]

There's always the pie theory of mats memories :rolleyes:

[SDZion]

Originally posted by KA3AK
You are either contradicting yourself

Sounds right!

[KA3AK]

Originally posted by Byrn
RE-read that section again, That was a battle cry used by Most Soldiers of Manetheren.
Re-read the section when Mat was disconnected from the dagger again.

[Byrn]

Mat remembers protecting Aemon. His memories are from Aemon's General. The Old Blood is stong in Manetheren. That doesn't mean they are re-incarnated. The only soul that has been reincanated is Rand/LTT. Egwene has spouted off the old tongue too. Is she Ellinsade(sp)? Remember the Fist of Trollocs chasing them nead Shadar Logoth?

[SDZion]

Egwene spoke the Old Tongue? When? If it's in CoT, then I haven't read it yet.

[Byrn]

Nearly everyone from Emond's Field has at one time or another. That or they've understood what was said.

[Thecaptain420]

THIS IS A STRETCH BUT HERE GOES

OK lets look at this plainly

What is the light, or lights of the world

Moon and sun correct

Half meaning one of those two.....And who is matt supposed to marry....The Daughter of the nine MOONS. moons being half the light of the world, So maybe it means that matt will have to give his wife up. And if he is in lovey divey with her. then maybe it means half the light of HIS world, her being that. It could be possible

[Murhagh]

The dagger didn't give matt those memories, but because Matt had the dagger and it caused holes in his memories is the reason he has them.

Cause and Effect

The dagger took Memories from Matt.
If the Dagger didn't do that then Matt wouldn't have asked the finns to fill the holes in his memory.

So in a way the dagger is the reason for the memories matt has.

[Ranion]

I can't remember what book it's in but everyone in the wheel of time is someone reborne, though none of them can remember anything each life is spun into the wheel again and again in a continuous circle (thus the wheel of time) Though now that I think of it it may just be the important people (Hawkwing, Telamon, Birgette, etc.) Mat happens to have memories of those lives, However, he never remembered them coherently until the aelfinn. He would accidentaly speak the old toungue and most of the time he didn't realize it. Even though the holes came from the dagger, it didn't give him the memories but that was when he started to remember things. If you think about it you can even compare mat's memories to the rand/telamon relationship.

[Byrn]

Those memories were likely taken from users of the Doorway Ter'angreal in Tear. Mat's memories stop around the Time the First of Mayene takes Doorway into possesion.

That's my take on it anyway.

[ClimberMan]

ya but all of mat's memories are of military generals, this would make sense if they were all memories of his previous lives but not if he just aquired the memories from the door so i think that they are defintaly his previous lives

[prophetic_joe]

OK considering the fact that Mat isn't really a military general in this life it stands to reason that he probably wasn't a military general in all of his previous lives if any of his previous lives. He had holes in his memory and what he asked for was for those holes to be filled up. he didn't ask for his memories back or for memories of his past lives back just that the wholes be filled. while it is possible that these memories are from mat's past lives it is a more logical belief that the finns just put in memories they wanted to, maybe they just felt like putting in military generals memories to mess with him. The blood of manetheren runs strong in him but all of the memories are not from manetheren generals or even manetharen people so there is no evidence that proves they are from his past lives.

[Endrin al'sohl]

I think that the memories he got where by chance but for a reason thanks to his Ta'averen luck and twisting.

[Llothlian]

it was everybody is born again... even farmers and whoes :D its only a select rew who ever realise this (rand, the heros etc) but it is EVERYBODY, well unless ur balefired... then ur just knackered :P

[cyber]

Mat has that medlion and he will porobably use it to make all poeople nontochable to one-power.He will use half of world's magic for this and the other half will live in people.

[cyber]

The dagger took some of his memories but it gave him the dark one's luck.

GOD BARGIN!!!

['Skis]

My opinion: The half the light thing is just a twist on the whole blindness thing. Egwene saw Mat with an eyepatch in a dream, and she dreams pretty accurately.
Besides, RJ probably realises he's onto a winner with Mat, and he's going to make him into a cowboy/pirate carrying a shitload of firepower. Who needs the One Power when you have guns?!
*strokes his gun*
-Logain
P.S I don't really have a gun, I live in Australia, they're afraid to sell water pistols down here.

[Race]

----------------------------------------------
THIS IS A STRETCH BUT HERE GOES

OK lets look at this plainly

What is the light, or lights of the world

Moon and sun correct

Half meaning one of those two.....And who is matt supposed to marry....The Daughter of the nine MOONS. moons being half the light of the world, So maybe it means that matt will have to give his wife up. And if he is in lovey divey with her. then maybe it means half the light of HIS world, her being that. It could be possible
----------------------------------------------------------------

I agree this is more likely than referring to losing an eye.

It was noted in one of the above posts that the Seanchan control half of the world and the other half, well not seanchan. (Rand doesn't quite control all of it, as of yet.) What if Mat sacrifices the non-sanchean half?or of course the other way around.

It seems to me Egwene had a dream about the seanchen attacking the white tower. Also in Book 10, ch4 it seems the seachen are blaming Tuon's disappearence on the white tower. Which, of course, means more than likely they will attack it.

"She had dreamed of Seanchan, too, of women in dresses with lightning bolts woven on their breasts, collaring a long line of women who wore Great Serpent rings, forcing them to call lightning against the White Tower. That had started her awake in a cold sweat, but that had to be just a nightmare, too. And the dream about Whitecloaks binding her father's hands. "

Isn't the Horn of Valere in the white tower? It may somehow end up in Matt's hands again to "save the world".

So maybe Matts somehow, directly or indirectly, destroys the white tower and ends up with the horn because of that action (kidnapping Tuon)?

[Llothlian]

mat HAS to have the horn again... no1 else may use it now he has blown it, so for the light to win TG mat has to have the horn back. and the white tower doesnt get destroyed, read RJ world of WOT (the commanion book), it tells of the white tower after the TG and the black tower, with a grey tower being made as a go between for the white and black.

[Race]

Damn, I was hoping so see the tower fall.

I know the horn has to fall into Matt hands (assuming it will be used again and assuming it will be used at TG), I was trying to work the seanchan dream Eqwene had into there. It may be that the 'white tower' refers to all sedeai, and irrelevant to Mat

I wonder if it (half the light of the world to save the world) ties into the male adame the suroth has? Just tossing that one out there.

[lan sam]

Originally posted by Byrn
Lan, RJ is bringing in firearms.

BUGGER!!!!

Seroiusly, my respect for the series will go like...

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[Theoban]

That's why Aludra the ex-illuminator asks Mat if he can figure out why she would need a bellmaker.

She's gonna make cannons.

I agree, I reckon it sounds awful too.

[Byrn]

Plus Egwene's vision of Mat shooting fireworks from his hands means atleast muzzle loaded weapons.

[Theoban]

Well, he could go all Discworld style and use fireworks down a cardboard tube

[Byrn]

Dear god, let's hope not.

[mattimeo]

Think about it.
The Seanchan are a;ready tking over parts of Randland especially in the South and the West.
Mat is also going to be married to Tuon, the daughter of the Empress, (I think...)
Anyway, something will happen to the Empress, Tuon will become Empress, Mat will be so'jhin, and Rand will let Mat create an alliance with Tuon so that they can be overlords of the South and the Wwst while he has the North and east up to the Dragonwall.
The Tairiens and Domani and Illiani will think that they are being taken over by Darkfriend who ride shadowspawn, so they will think that they lght of the World has gone.
GOT A PROBLEM WITH THAT! MESSAGE ME IF YOU DO!
Mat

[Karistina]

GOT A PROBLEM WITH THAT! MESSAGE ME IF YOU DO!
Mat

I don't necessarily agree with your theory, but the only problem I have is the confrontational last line about GOT A PROBLEM WITH THAT! Not a good note to end on. Please settle down.

[magatsu17]

I think the whole giving up the light of the world is Matt losing an eye, but the "giving up" implies this is done volentarily. I think he might give one of his eyes to Rand or some thing like that if it becomes nececcary. Also firearms are going to come into the series. They'll be the key to winning the last battle. Man this next WOT book needs to come out soon.

[Beowulf]

People have been talking about the firearms thing for so many years... It just makes me sick. This series has gone on way too fugging long. :grumbles:

[Almira]

Mat won't lose his eye. It's too obvious, because at this point, everybody knows about the Odin allusion. I understand that that's what he did, but... I think it is just too damn obvious.

[Byrn]

Mat is fated to "Give up half the light of the world to save the world" or something along those lines. Now that could mean a couple ofthings.

1) He loses an eye

2) He betrays either Rand or Tuon, I'm leaning towards Tuon, "giving up" his Rights in Seanchan.

Of course this is all just speculation.

[Dregs]

Mat won't lose his eye. It's too obvious, because at this point, everybody knows about the Odin allusion. I understand that that's what he did, but... I think it is just too damn obvious.

Because RJ's a master of subtle intrigue?

[Almira]

He said, straight from his mouth, that he was going to add a twist to it (don't know the link or the exact quote) and what better time to do that then when everybody thinks they've got it figured?

I think Mat's going to give up Rand and everything Rand-related. Not betray them; just break all remainding ties that link him to them. More or less, Rand symbolizes the Sun (He Who Comes With The Dawn, Prince of the Morning (was that it?)). Tuon, obviously, is the moon. And, since there's the Odin allusion, then I'm going to point out that in every religion, in all myths (except for maybe one or two) the left eye symbolizes the Moon, the right eye the Sun.

We don't know what eye Mat's going to give up. We just know that he's placing it on a balance scale. And for that matter, we never see him with a missing eye (only the 'blood streaming down his face' but that symbolized his deal with Gaebril/Rahvin, because he literally did bet against the Dark One on that.) Okay, what is he weighing the eye/moon against? We don't know that. And we don't know if that other scale ends up weighing more.