Rand and Cadsuane

[Aldebaran]

Can someone please explain why Rand is suffering Cadsuane's abuse/bullying so easily?

Rand has no need, *zero* need of cadsuane. They only given reason RJ gives for him tolerating her, is that LTT whimpers(like that's a surprise) and min's viewing. But the huge hole in the 2nd reasoning is that min's viewing always come true, and thus rand does not need to be civil/keep cadsuane nearby at all. No matter how much people try to stop things from min's viewing from happening, coalavere and her hanging, that young novice and the guard in white tower, etc. these things will happen. Thus it is cadsuane and every other non-dorkfriend who needs rand to be alive for TG, since the creator is obviously on a very long spring break in Tijuana.

So to sum it up, i think rand has no reason to be civil with the old hag, and every reason to give cadsuane an old fashioned, redhaired trailerpark stepchild beating :D

P.S It's not that i hate cadsuane or what she is doing (trying to make him cry and laugh), but there really is no logic in rand's current behavior, especially considering his views on aes sedai who always meddle in his work while he is trying to save the world.

[Beowulf]

I wonder if there is a way of breaking Min's sure-fire viewings. I bet the Dark One could do it as he's outside the Pattern. Would be interesting to see. I don't like Cadsuane, but she isn't even the worst.

I think Aes Sedai are the biggest bunch of idiotic harridans. Having Moiraine come back and put arrogant sisters like Cadsuane in their place would be a great thing. I highly doubt Moiraine will be intimidated by someone like the near legendary Cadsuane after her experiences.

I'm tired of the Aes Sedai and other women who sniff and act generally foolish with their petty schemes when they should be doing whatever they can to help.

[Tinkers Sword]

Maybe Rand allows Cadsuane to browbeat him because she reminds him of Moiraine (in her early days at least) - he may feel guilty - for pushing Moiraine away for so long, then when finally they reach understanding of one another she is killed by his inability to act.

Both her and Cadsuane have always portrayed all the traits you would expect from an Aes Sedai - a mysterious wisdom almost on every subject, coolness mixed with intolerance, a haughty & dominant dimeaner (sp).

I don't know if many of you think that Cadsuane and Moiraine are very similar characters. But if you do this could explain Rand's uncharacteristic behaviour around Cadsuane.

[Gina]

I think that she is like our Grandmothers. Could you argue with yours? I know I couldn't. She's like an old version of Nynaeve. Imagine that! LOL

She has alot of wisdom and the experience to know how to push a youngin like Rand. He is very young and it's like having to deal with your grandson. She just knows how to do it just right.

:)

[Mael]

Rand does keep the hag around because of Min's viewing, but I think also cos he knows that, in all his arrogance and power, she is still important. After all, Causuane and that Aiel Wise One, Her name slips me, did agree that it was time to "Teach Rand how to luagh again". If he can not learn that, all his darkness that he is generating about him will eventually consume him, and no one will want to follow him.

[Urbal T]

Min's viewing was not that Cadsuane will help Rand whatever, but that if Cadsuane doesn't, bad things will happen. Rand probably endures it because (a): she reminds him of Moiraine, (b): he believes Min, and possibly (c): Cadsuane's superior attitude is getting on his nerves, and he feels the need to prove he can endure it.

Moiraine definitely needs to come back, it's been long enough I think.

Mister Beowulf, are you the same Beowulf from Wotism.org?

--Urbal T

[Jacob]

I think Gina's got the right of it. Rand accepts Cadsuanes browbeating because he can't quite figure out how to not accept it. Sure, he's used to being the bigshot now...but Cadsuanes not treating him that way and he can't seem to impress her in any way. Basically, he's tried to stare her down and he blinked first. He's not used to that either and don't know what to do when that happends.

[Archbishop]

Rand has done something similar to this before. In the beginning of the second book, Moiraine acts as if she wants nothing to do with him and tells him to go if he wants to (and he says that he does). For a month afterwards, he stayed in Fal Dara while this was going on, and the only reason he tried to leave was because the Amyrlin arrived.

Now I'm going to get into something somewhat farfetched, but what if Rand is being influenced by Lews Therin in some fashion at this point already. Lews does not want the same thing that happened to him and the Hundred Companions to happen again. He is influencing Rand to maintain relations with the female channelers because eventually he will need them. This could also be one of the reaons for keeping that old wench around as well.

Or it could just be that Rand is into that whole dominatrix thing....

[Urbal T]

I say the latter.

[Darkgod]

I Really hate cadusane i mean she was a big shot in her day but know their a re a dozen male and female channelers far stronger than her so she can drop the whole act rand could crush her without much effort i mean she isnt even as strong as elane and eugene

[Enariom]

I think there's more to Caddy then we've seen so far...
She kind of reminds me of what I think Verin will be if she lives as long as Cadsuane.

[Byrn]

You guys realize this thread has been inactive for 2 years right?

[Enariom]

Yup. Is that a problem?

[Jaric Mondoran]

I only like two of the women around Rand -Min and Aviendha.

Both of them are proud of him, fiercely protective, and they have no hidden agenda's of their own.

Min just wants to keep Rand out of harms way, and Aviendha will not tolerate any slight to his honor, or danger to his person. .


Compare that to the harridan Cadsuane, the snotty Elayne, and the arrogant Egwene, and the contrast could not be greater. Aviendha and Min truly love him, while Cadsuane just wants to use him, and Elayne just wants to own him.

Min is a real loving and adoring wife, Aviendha is a protective and caring wife but Elayne is a manipulative, ambitious and self absorbed wife. Cadsuane is like a dripping tap, a bloody irritating mother in law.

I even have no problem with the Wise Ones, although they argue with Rand, and offer him advice, they still respect him, and care about his well being. I loved their anger when they wanted to avenge his dishonor at Dumai's Wells.

Cadsuane must be murdered, cruelly. I favor Semirhage for the job, the only problem is that she inflicts too little pain on her victims.

Maybe Cadsuane can be given to a Myrdraal...

['Skis]

Wow, he really hates Cadsuane.

[Rallan]

I think Urbal T hit the nail on the head. Min didn't give him an "Ok, this is gonna happen if you like it or not" viewing (which naturally would've given Rand leeway to be as much or a rude bastard as he feels), she gave him an "Ok, Cadsuane's really really important and you're gonna be totally screwed if she doesn't get a chance to do whatever she's supposed to do" viewing, which basically means that Rand is stuck with the unenviable task of putting up with the old cow all the Light-forsaken time.

Plus of course there's always the off chance that Rand actually likes having people who aren't buttkissers around him. Ever since he became king of the world, Cadsuane's pretty much the only person on the planet who'll publicly call him an idiot, disagree with him whenever she damn well wants to, and absolutely refuse to let him tell her what to do. I figure he either secretly likes and respects the old bat, or he's just too bamboozled to figure out how to deal with someone who just won't stay dealt with.



Rallan
- and then again maybe he secretly lusts after her, and Cadsuane's important lesson will be that old women do it better :)

[Zzbrynia]

I personally think he's just curious to find out what exactly it is that Cadsuanne will teach him and all the Asha'man. Not to mention, Min has never had a viewing go wrong, except arguably Moiraine, and Rand listens to/trusts Min more so than anyone else save Elayne and Avienda, so if for not other reason, he will put up with Cadsuanne because Min said it is important that she teach him and the Asha'man something and more importantly he listen and learn.

Rand is a man of duty, no matter whether he likes it or not, he will do what must be done and endure what must be endured.

- and then again maybe he secretly lusts after her, and Cadsuane's important lesson will be that old women do it better

That would certainly make for a surprise twist that I would have never seen coming had you not pointed it out -LoL-

[Darkgod]

But the crap about making him softer is annoyning he has to be hard not some soft sissy girl who cries everytime a soldier of his dies. I think the old bat is going the wrong way in teaching rand how to cry and laugh that will open up a weakness to him and he has to be invincible for the last battle or all of them are screwed

[Kalinzar]

Maybe this is off-topic, but does anyone know what Cadsuane refers to when she talks with the Aes Sedai after she is introduced? She asks Merana and Arrouna if they were involved with the "filth" after the Aiel war. (not sure if i translate it good now;)) I have been wondering what she meant with that for a while now.

Don't have the book here, but it's in book 7 just after we see Cadsuane talking with Rand for the first time.

[Argaan]

There wasn't much insight into the "filth" after the Aiel war, at least until New Spring: The Novel came out. The "filth" if I am remembering right was when the Black Ajah killed the Amrylin (Searin? or was she the one the BA put into the power?) after Gitara died and then slowly but surely killed off all of those the previous Amrylin had sent out to search for the "Dragon child".

Back to the original thread....

I think it is also worth mentioning that Moiraine was convinced that Cadsuanne was Black Ajah, but could never prove it or maybe never had the opportunity to prove it as she avoided Cadsuanne like the plague after disobeying her and heading to Calinicum (I think) to meet up with Suanne. Should Moiraine come back from the Tower of Ghenji (??), I for one can't wait for the confrontation between those two. But until (or if) she does come back, I think we'll be fully left in the dark as to Cadsuanne's true purpose. For that matter, I think we will never really find out Verin's true goals at all, but I personally am convinced one or the other is Black Ajah and I lean towards Verin for the simple fact that Cadsuanne seems too obvious .

[Anaram_]

But the crap about making him softer is annoyning he has to be hard not some soft sissy girl who cries everytime a soldier of his dies. I think the old bat is going the wrong way in teaching rand how to cry and laugh that will open up a weakness to him and he has to be invincible for the last battle or all of them are screwed

Let's face it: Rand's not presently exactly "strong". He might be hard in some ways, but he definitely is not very strong. I've seen it as Cadsuane's purpose to make him Softer/Stronger instead of the Harder/Weaker course he seems to be on.

[Buckweet]

Strong as stone and not as hard as glass

That was the analogy she used while talking with the Wise One.