Strongest Militaries(Aside from Aiel)

[BenIII]

What country had the strongest military before Rand began his conquest? Amadicia would be one, with the Whitecloaks(who carried out a war with three different countries) and also the Borderland nations. Would the strongest be Andor? It looked like it had a lot of influence, or perhaps Illian or Tear.........

[SDZion]

According to the number of men recordedly sent by all countries in contribution to the Grand Alliance at the Battle of the Shininh Walls, Shienar, who sent 29 000 soldiers, has the stronest military. The first runner up would be Andor with 28 000 men, abd the came Illian with 26 000.

p.s. For those of you who can't remember this battle, it was the battle in which King Laman was killed by Aiel for cutting down <i>Avendoraldera</i>, surrounding the island of Tar Valon. All the nations came together in fear of the Aiel threat spreading to their homelands, forming the Grand Alliance. It was the closest the nations had come together since Artut Hawkwing's times, but the Alliance broke up almost immediately after.

Hope that clears it up :D

[tjrogue]

The Seanchan. :p :D

[supuradam]

#'s don't mean anything sd. look at the romans. with 1/4 of the troops as the germanic tribes, they destroyed them. it comes down to generals, discipline, and force. i think andor. although shienar has more men, they're all heavy cavalry. archers eat heavy calvary. andor has gareth bryne (one of the best generals) and a very diverse military unit. they talk about the archers, cavalry, pikeman, and seige engineers.... i think andor owns all.

[Indigo Montoya]

The borderlands, they are battle hardened fighting the Trollocs and Halfmen on a constant basis and they seem to run into Aiel quite often. The have the experience

[supuradam]

i think experience is more on an individual basis than that of an entire army.

[baxts]

Super Adam dude, Heavy cavalry will rip foot soldiers to shreds any day of the week!!! Archers will take a toll of course, but not much different to foot soldiers!! And yes Andor does have Gareth Bryne, but lie I/M said, after spending their lives fighting trollocs and myrrdraals, The men of andor would go down like grass before a bush fire!!

[BenIII]

When did you get all that info about the Aiel War numbers?

[BenIII]

In the Prologue of PoD, Tenobia says she has close to 50,000 Saldeans soldiers riding with her........Also, in TDR,didn't one of the Borderlanders say that 5,000 was half of the Whitecloaks total force? If so, why were they so formidable?

[val7]

Whitecloaks = good fighters? Good commanders? Determined?

[wingo]

The coats blind the enemy. Its why they keep their coats so white and are able to be such a threatening force. :D

[supuradam]

umm... baxts? you ever study war strategy? i took almost 2 years of it. heavy cavalry is good against foot. pikes hold them off. cavalry engages. archers mow down from back. trust me. if an entire army has one type of unit, they'll lose. you need diversity. different units have strenghts and weaknesses against different units.

[SDZion]

I agree with SA about the archers, but I', gonna say Shienar and Andor are evenly matched. Aside from numbers, Shienar also has Lord Agelmar Jagad of Shienar, who was considered the best general at the Battle of the Shining Walls. Andor's general was considered 3rd best, and was killed on the third day of fighting.

The Whitecloaks are good because of discipline, and a wicked general, Pedron Niall was considered the second best general at Tar Valon. With him dead, the Whitecloaks aren't so great not.

I got my info about the Aiel War from <u>The World of Robert Jordan's The Wheel of Time</u> by Robert Jordan & Teresa Patterson. It's the most recent guide out, and it covers everything up to and including aCoS

[SDZion]

Also, Gareth Bryne is dead.

[SDZion]

Awwwww! What am i saying? Bryne is commanding an Aes Sedai army! *Hangs head in shame*

[supuradam]

yeah. hang that head.... rj's wheel of time, aka, BBoBA.
um... bryne is one of the greatest generals too....

[Warder Trained]

The arrival of the Seanchan pretty much makes single country, no channeller armies moot.

[supuradam]

actually, now that i think aboutit, maybe tbotrh is the strongest... mat's the best general the world has ever seen, imho, and in the opinion of others such as lan too. his army beats everything thrown against it, regardless of the odds... i change my opinion. i'm for the band being the strongest.

[SDZion]

The Seanchan and the Band both are very powerful, but this thread was talking about countries. Also, Bryne isn't working for Andor anymore.

[GWINNA]

Strongest military forces? The Asha'Man. Serously, its like fighting tanks with rocks, you can do it, but 99.9% of the time its not going to work.

[SDZion]

The Asha'Man aren;t a country either :D

[supuradam]

well, up top it just says militaries :p

[SDZion]

Ya but the first post says countries, so I went with countries. :D

[GWINNA]

sure they are, they are Rand's (theorecticaly) and Rand is ruler of Tear, head cheif of the aiel waste , king of Illian, and de facto executive of Carhien(sp?) so I think they should count.

[sven]

remember I think that if you call the Ashaman anything you would have to call them Taims. Logain has a faction that is close to him but Taim (a Darkfriend at least) gives the orders.

[tjrogue]

Well, iffn you wanted to limit it to WESTLAND coutries, it would make sense to leave out the Seanchan.

They are a country too, ya know. =]

Not to mention they are definietly the strongest power aside from Rand, with Tarabon, Amadicia, and Altara in the saddlebags, along with part of Illian, now.

[Indigo Montoya]

the Ogier are the strongest and most ruthless,once they get organized for the last battle. Just look at the Seanchan, they seem werry of the ones in their army. It is the strong quite types you have to watchout for. Aren't there sayings like "never piss off an Ogier, it is like bringing a mountain down on your head"( Iknow it is not a direct quote):)

[BenIII]

When do the Seanchan get part of Illian? I've got about 80 pages of Path of Daggers, and Rand has done a pretty good job of defeating them, they retreated after he used Callandor.

[GWINNA]

I still say the Asha'man are at least partialy Rands!

[Thomdril]

*spoiler if you haven't read WH*





The Seanchan come back...just because Rand kicked them out of Ilian they are still strong

[Anita_Blake]

but... before rand started his conquest (what the first post says), so like the strongest army in TEOTW... probably.... i'd have to say the aiel, becasue of the aiel war... it took all the nations combined to get rid of them, and they only succeeded because the aiel were done what they came to accomplish.

[BenIII]

Yes........I believe that has already been established-in the first post.

[GWINNA]

Well if you combine all of rand's forces, that would be the strongest.

[BenIII]

Yep, and Illian is probably the most powerful country Rand has on his side(is it not?), it's a shame he doesn't have Andor in his pocket.

But Rand is going to have an incredibly difficult fighting the Corenne(sp?). Hundereds of thousands of Seanchan won't die easily.......I'm assuming they don't come in Winter's Heart.

[GWINNA]

I think the Seanchan will become less an issue when the Aes Sedia and the Asha'man unite now that the taint is gone, and combinded with the other forces Rand has, he could kick them hard if he has a chance.

[BenIII]

I take it the Seanchan don't return in book nine. I had forgotten that the Aes Sedai will be able to sense that the taint is gone, and now that they can make a Cirle of up to 66(or is it 77?) things will go much better for the forces of Light.

[GWINNA]

it could get funny.
Rand:Knock Knock
Seachan: Who's there?
Rand: BOOM! :D

[Lasmith]

The borderlands couldn't send their troops of any sizeable amount away from the blight until Rand came along, becuase every year they had to defend that gap from trollocs. This made them very effecient killers of Trollocs and such, but maybe not against other humans.

Caemlyn was and is very powerful, plus close to Tar Valon in more ways than one. But even they are losing control of their lands, how many generations had it been since a tax collector had been to Two Rivers. They are a changing nation.

Cairhein is a bunch of squabbling betties that have been broken by the aiel and starving themselves. Their army isn't squat.

Tear, although powerful and dangerous, is always contending with Cairhein and Illian which weakens their offensive powers. Plus before Rand they had to defend the tear from all attacks. Plus was never going to ask Tar Valon for help.

Illian is too defensive, and only seems to come out when there is a place for their names to be scribed in history.

Overall:

Whitecloaks though smaller than alot of the others have alot of things going for them.

1. Unity: They are all united in a single purpose, and are not hampered by political bullpuckey.

2. They are based in Amadicia I think but they have no real enemy close by, and can move their bulk of their army anytime they need it.

3. They do not fear the White Towers and the witches, unlike alot of other countries, so they are more likely to storm another country, and not worry about a Tar Valon Emmisary coming to "negotiate".

4. They rule.

[Indigo Montoya]

(spoiler) the Seanchan broke them(Whitecloaks) like a bitch twice, at the Falme and at the heart of their power the White Fortress( or what ever it is called ). I don't think they are all that powerful of a force. The only places they truely have sway is in countries that are in the middle of civil wars or political turmoil. I don't think they should even be considered. They could not stand up to a Tear or Illian or Andor (before Rahvin screwed it all up). They just pick on the weak and the scared.

[supuradam]

umm... actually i think the seanchan are gonna be really hard to get rid of. don't forget how in addition to troops, they brought tons of farmers, common folk, etc... to settle and stuff. that'll take longer to get rid of than any army. i'm thinking they're going to be around for a while.

[Indigo Montoya]

ummm... I was talking about the whitecloaks

[astraea]

Rand can count on:
RAND + most of the Aiel + Ash'aman + Matt and Perrin's armies + Tear, Illian, Mayene, Cairhein.
Eventually, Egwene will bring him the support of a united Tower, Lan and Faile the Borderlands, Loial the Ogier, Elayne Andor and the Sea Folk (he's is the Cooramoor, after all). Matt may even bring him the Seanchan before the Last Battle.
By the time Rand gets around to marshalling ALL of his potential forces at one time he will be able to crush the Seanchan and the Whitecloaks... what's more of a problem is the Last Battle, where its just up to him, presumably.

[GWINNA]

Originally posted by supuradam
umm... actually i think the seanchan are gonna be really hard to get rid of. don't forget how in addition to troops, they brought tons of farmers, common folk, etc... to settle and stuff. that'll take longer to get rid of than any army. i'm thinking they're going to be around for a while.
With a scattered army, you can round up the groups with seachan accents, kill them , and then have only a bunch of hidding peasents that would intergrate into the current society as best they could with very little cultural cross corrolation.

[BenIII]

How is he going to defeat the Seanchan, though? They have plenty of Damane, and Aiel-ish numbers of soldiers. If I were him, I would gather about 100,000(Aiel) and about 100 Ash'man, and Take Amador. Then perhaps he could take Ebou Dar, free the rest of Altara, and contain the massive Seanchan force to Tarabon.

[GWINNA]

Well once the Aes Sedia unite with the Asha'man your going to see Rand kick some major booty. Circles up to something like 69 of both men and women against a bunch of Damane working as individuals. Who's your money on?

[BenIII]

It's going to take those fool Aes Sedai a few books to come around though, while the Seanchan conquer the world.

[GWINNA]

But once it happens, + rand could probaly do it himself with a few guards and the Choden Kal. Say that would be fun, I'm going to defeat your army by turning the land you occupy into an ocean.

[sven]

I doubt that ocean thing would be a good thing unless you looking for yet a another nation dying of famine after all of the farm land gets salted

[Indigo Montoya]

Originally posted by sven
I doubt that ocean thing would be a good thing unless you looking for yet a another nation dying of famine after all of the farm land gets salted

I think that would be the least of their worries, Unless they were really really good swimmers. :D :D :D

[Arawis]

Originally posted by astraea
Rand can count on:
RAND + most of the Aiel + Ash'aman + Matt and Perrin's armies + Tear, Illian, Mayene, Cairhein.


hmm........yes but can Rand count on the asha'man? after all they dont really listen to him at all

[GWINNA]

Actualy about 50% of the Asha'man are Rands the Other 50% are the Dark Ones via Taim

[astraea]

Where did you get that from? I'm not disagreeing with you, but unless there's a quote somewhere that seems a bit random.
If someone obeys orders from a Darkfriend, and doesn't actually know they are a Darkfriend, it doesn't mean they are the Dark One's... just that they need a new boss, as in Rand.

[sven]

or Logain

[Lasmith]

Logain Rules, And he will conquer the whole world and re-create it in his image.

P.s. I have a soft spot for Logaine since I almost share his name.

[GWINNA]

It just my opinion that Taim has converted about half the Asha'man to the darkside, so they can be dreadlords

[Lasmith]

Taim is a really starting to piss me off. I hope he dies in a most painful way, hopeflly sacrificed to Mach SHin.

[supuradam]

i'd rather see him skined alive... they always talk about it, but never has it been done so far.

[Indigo Montoya]

didn't the Shadio do it at that town when they crossed the Spine of the World? Skinning people that is .

[GWINNA]

I think Lanfear skined that Dark Friend alive, just sort of ripped the skinn off the bone in one peice.

[talyn rahl]

Hmmm that would be quite Ironic, the Asha'man set up to fight the dark side all becoming Dreadlords and killing Rand's crew along with all the other armies, that would suck A LOT

[Illustrious]

Actually Rand and Ingtar come upon the bodies of two Shienaran Darkfriend Soldiers. They were hung in a tree and skinned (Alive?).

[GWINNA]

Originally posted by Illustrious
Actually Rand and Ingtar come upon the bodies of two Shienaran Darkfriend Soldiers. They were hung in a tree and skinned (Alive?).
But we never see it happen.

[Thomdril]

I think that the Whitecloaks were such a great fighting force because of their mone- all brand new arms+armor when everyone elses is rust

[Lasmith]

A fellow after my own hear. Whitecloaks rule!!!

[BenIII]

We don't know for sure that the two Shienarans are Darkfriends......