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View Full Version : Taim: What went on (Spoilers for TSR onwards)


Bennnnnn
1st April 2002, 18:27
So now we all know Taim is/has been up to no good... I've been re-reading lately and I think I figured out what went on.

We now know that Taim is not Demandred, but I believe he *is* a DF.

Here's why:

Fact #1: At the beginning of TSR, we see Joiya and Amico (the Black sisters captured in Tear) questioned; Joiya claimed they had planned to control Taim and make the world believe Taim was Rand, while he did very bad things under their control. While we do not know if this is a lie (BA having slipped their three oaths) it may equally be truth, or partially truth.

Fact #2: Later, Joiya and Amico are murdered, most likely by someone fighting for the shadow. The reasons for this are unclear - it may be because they talked, or it may be because they were going to talk but had not yet.

Fact #3: Taim, having been captured and on his way to Tar Valon, is broken free by a force or forces unknown. Siuan believes Taim's supporters are to blame, yet he was removed by stealth and Aes Sedai have died in the attack. Who but black sisters would have the opportunity to do this?

Fact #4: We know that, given the correct resources, male and female channelers can be turned to the shadow against their will. It takes thirteen myrddraal and thirteen channelers to do so; this is easily achievable given the location of Taim's escape (not far south of Kandor) - this is not too far from the blight.

Fact #5: There is little or no news regarding Taim from news of his escape in TSR until he presents himself to Rand in LoC. This is plenty of time for him to be schooled in his channeling skills (by whom? This could have been Demandred, and an example of one of the "proxies" he likes to use, mentioned by the other forsaken in the prologue of LoC)

Fact #6: Taim seems very sure of himself all through his entrance in LoC. Perhaps some of the Black sisters used the *'finn ter'angreal while they were in Tear? Presuming that he was turned by some of these same sisters, they could easily have told him what would happen; and of course, if plainly told, he may well have taken it for truth.

Theory: Taim is a darkfriend, though not necessarily of his own volition. He has the space of about one-and-a-half books when he disappears, during which he is turned to the shadow, and learns some nifty tricks with the power (like, how to train other male channelers). He knows (or believes he knows) some of what will happen (or at least, what will *not* happen) because an Aes Sedai told him plainly.

It's a lot easier with hindsight, I guess. If only I'd picked up on this the first couple of times I read the books. Ah well.

Abraxas77
1st April 2002, 19:26
I will not deny the possibility of Taim being a darkfriend (his attitude--in a way--fits the role). You've made a few interesting points, that may help your arguement. I believe most of us, however, allready agree with you.

I do have a problem with fact #2, which proves a weakness in your arguement. Those two were killed because they failed the DO. They were captured by the girls--with Matt's help of course. Thier death has nothing to do with Taim.

MikeRules311
4th April 2002, 01:34
(We now know that Taim is not Demandred, but I believe he *is* a DF.) quote


How do we KNOW that Damendred isn't Taim? I don't believe I have read that quote.

MikeRules311
4th April 2002, 01:40
I am not trying to disprove your theory (i'm not trying to be an asshole or anything...), but RJ has put so many refrences and allusions to Taim being Damendred, that I think it's too obvious.

Buckweet
7th April 2002, 18:35
Yea but in Winter's Heart it was disproved.... I didnt like it either:( :confused:

baxts
7th April 2002, 18:38
two things

1-> i think i can remember this aright, dashiva is killed in w/h right, and he was one of the forsaken, (book said so straight out), and i was nearly certain that dashiva was demandred wasnt he??

2-> Taim is still darkfriend coz the renegade darkfriends/ashaman that rand kills in Far Madding talk about the orders on disposing rand that the m'hael gave them taim being the m'hael and all. surely he wouldnt be organising a group of ashamen some at least we know are darkfriends to kill rand unless he was one himself!!??!

Bennnnnn
7th April 2002, 20:19
I need to re-read winter's heart; I read it once and lent my copy to a friend, and now i'm re-reading all the books again i guess i'll get through it a second time.

I can't really talk too much about what went on in WH - I remember some basic stuff that happened in it (Far Madding, Elayne's return to Caemlyn, etc) but I really need to read each book two or three times before I pick up on a bunch of stuff.

One summer I read Lord of Chaos 15 times, because it was the only book I had with me.

archely
7th April 2002, 20:33
go here

http://www.arkane.demon.co.uk/WOTFAQ/index.html#Contents

supuradam
8th April 2002, 16:46
arch- on a side note, i spent like 2+ hours looking at that site. it's got so many cross references you can look for hours....