Future of the Red Ajah

[Hopper]

Not sure if anyone's mentioned this, but what's going to happen to the Reds with no taint to make male chanellers go insane?

[Pope Trevor]

Welcome Aboard Hopper!

might no have to worry about reds much more anyway, with Egwene and the others heading to Tar Valon.

Kinda convient isn't it, no more need for the reds, just as they're about the get shit-kicked

[balefire]

Originally posted by Hopper
Not sure if anyone's mentioned this, but what's going to happen to the Reds with no taint to make male chanellers go insane?

I think this has been mentioned on another thread (can't remember where though) but I think they'll simply disband & disperse to other Ajahs. Or they'll simply go crazy like the men they used to gentle, since their purpose in life is gone. Then there's a good excuse for stilling &/or killing them. I like that possibility ;)

[Priest]

Think about it. Rand cleaned the taint but do you think any Red Ajah member would ever believe him? No and i wouldn't if I was a Red either or for that member any female channeler at all. But for the future of the Red Ajah I think it has one, just significanly modified one. I think if the males ever rejoin the tower and Rand takes his place as a termyln(or however you spell it) then the males would have their own red Ajah. Their function would be a check and balance against members of the other sex as it will obviously take a long time before they trust each other, if ever.

[Jacob]

This IS an interesting question of course. What's going to happen to the Red Ajah? I've never seen any satisfactory theory on this subject. My thoughts are that the Red Ajah will be dissolved. But my reason is different from what I've seen other say. I do not think that the Aes Sedai that are now of the Red will join other Ajah's instead. I think that ALL the Ajah's will be dissolved. Why do I think this? Well, think about it, why are there Ajah's? Because there are different causes to fight for and it's a good strukture to divide the sisters after what they're interested in? No, I think not. The whole system of different Ajah's is something that marks the dissention, the lack of unity in the Tower. When the White Tower was created, there was alot of dissention among the Aes Sedai, open conflict even. The creations of different Ajah's were a part (this is my opinion) of an attempt to try to mend these conflicts. In short, the creation of the Ajah's were a compromise. Aes Sedai were given the name for their serving for the good of all, not for serving a special intrest.

The taint on Saidin has been removed and thus the obsticle that has prevented there from being any male Aes Sedai in over three thousand years. If Aes Sedai truly is to be "Servant of All" again, then there must be unity between male and female channeler again. For this to happen, the split that began with Shadar Nor's "The faithfull accord" must be mended. For this to happen, the different Ajah's must first be dissolved so that the female Aes Sedai stand as one (as the Asha'man do...sorto) before male and female can be united and a new the Hall of Servants (as opposed to Hall of the Tower) can be created. Then there will only be "The Ajah" again.

[Strabo]

It would be great if the Red Ajah would just go silently into the night. But I can't really see it happening. The rest of the White Tower isn't going to be thrilled that men can now channel and thus are able to be full-fledged Aes Sedai again. But is the mere fact that the taint is gone going to rid the world of however many years of fear and strife? How many people are going to believe that men are not going to go crazy and kill everyone after believing it for their entire life. I think the question will go on farther than the Red Ajah. There is going to have to a change to the entire social order of Randland. People find it hard to accept that there is the Dragon Reborn abroad in the land. I think this is only in part because he is a male channeler. But for the masses to accept that male channelers are not evil, are not going insane, are not going to break the world again...I think that will be a little hard for them to swallow. Even if the masses don't have to accept it, the Aes Sedai are going to have a hard time with it. Even the people that grew up with Rand; that know he is a good person are having problems with the person he's becoming. Ok, I strayed a little from the original question...I think the Red Ajah, even if they are disbanded formally, are going to continue hunting male channelers. It may even be necessary. Even with the taint gone the insanity that was cause to males channeling before the taint was removed is still there. In the ranks of the Asha'men there is some insanity. The Red Ajah are going to continue with the men-hating ways and hunt down the thing they fear the most. In time they may adjust, or they may have to be forcefully put down. I think that if they don't adjust then the Ajah will end up being wiped out by the very male channelers that they are hunting. Ok, I doubt that made very much sense...I kind of wandered around there. Sorry about that ;) If you want it clarified, ask me.

Strabo

[LaughingTurtle]

While I loved your theory Jacob as for all the ajahs to go back to the it used to be as just "one"...it'll never happen, at least in my opinion, and in this generation of Aes Sedai. They have lived their entire lives in that certain structure, and even if the male channelers could rejoin them as things once where, not one...not one I say, Aes Sedai would be willing enough to let them rejoin the Servents. There is just too much distrust of male channelers for it to just go away in a few years.

Though, maybe with the TG, who knows, cause you know RJ has something up his sleave for it...maybe it might be it's all the good channelers (male & female) joining together(because of need and necessity) to help him fight the (whatever is remaining) forsaken/darkfriends/trollocs/seanchan/etc

[Vanidar]

It really boils down to a question of time. Depending on the nearness of the Last Battle, that is. Given the life spans involved of the Aes Sedai, the Kin, the Wise Ones,the Windfinders the disposition of the tower is largely going to be a question of how much time they have to mend their differences. Primarily, the rift in the WT. If Egwene "wins" before the LB, she may be able to do a great deal with the support of the Wise Ones,who are sure to support her, and the Kin will fall into line with the Power of the Amyrlin. While they may not respect E and N too much, the history of the WT holds too much awe. The Windfinders are a wild card, and most likely will bargain an affiliation with the WT rather than membership. Consider also the Damane and Sul'dam. It won't be long before that secret breaks and then shit hits the fan for the Empire.Thats an awful lot of powerful women running around to even consider putting up a unified front to the men. In addition,(sorry for the ramble)you have to take into account Rand's abhorence for women dying for him. I'm sure things will get wierd when he inevitably decides to forbid the Greens from fighting for him in the LB.
Once again, just tossing it out there. Have fun picking it apart.

Van

[Larkin]

The Greens not fighting in the last battle???? What the f@*!!
He let Cadsun. and the Windfinder and others fight at the end of WH including (unknown to everyone else) a Black Ajah sister.

I say, if a Black sister could be allowed to fight (no matter the cercumstances, I think we can count on the Green Berea Ajah to be there come crunch time.

[balefire]

Originally posted by Priest
Think about it. Rand cleaned the taint but do you think any Red Ajah member would ever believe him? No and i wouldn't if I was a Red either or for that member any female channeler at all.
In time they will, because the males'll stop going mad, apart from those who are already.

Originally posted by Priest
the males would have their own red Ajah. Their function would be a check and balance against members of the other sex as it will obviously take a long time before they trust each other, if ever.

I personally doubt the Asha'man & Aes Sedai will ever trust each other. The Aes Sedai have historically shown that they're sneaky, slippery & untrustworthy wenches who'll stretch the 3 Oaths as far as they can in order to satisfy their own agendas. Is it a surprise Aes Sedai have such a bad reputation, not just in Randland but also among the Aiel, the Sea Folk & the Seanchan? Aes Sedai are cunning, manipulative bitches who have dipped their beringed fingers into the Pie of the World just too much. They should be put out of action so they don't meddle too much in politics & other world affairs.

Give me your trust said the Aes Sedai.
On my shoulders I support the sky.
Trust me to know and to do what is best,
And I will take care of the rest.

But trust is the colour of a dark seed growing.
Trust is the colour of a heart's blood flowing.
Trust is the colour of a soul's last breath.
Trust is the colour of death.

Give me your trust said the queen on her throne,
for I must bear the burden all alone.
Trust me to lead and to judge and to rule,
and no man will think you a fool.

But trust is the sound of the grave-dog's bark.
Trust is the sound of betrayal in the dark.
Trust is the sound of a soul's last breath.
Trust is the sound of death.

Notice the words Aes Sedai & Queen. What does that say about people's opinions of those Tower witches?

Originally posted by Strabo
It would be great if the Red Ajah would just go silently into the night. But I can't really see it happening. The rest of the White Tower isn't going to be thrilled that men can now channel and thus are able to be full-fledged Aes Sedai again. But is the mere fact that the taint is gone going to rid the world of however many years of fear and strife? How many people are going to believe that men are not going to go crazy and kill everyone after believing it for their entire life. I think the question will go on farther than the Red Ajah. But for the masses to accept that male channelers are not evil, are not going insane, are not going to break the world again...I think that will be a little hard for them to swallow. Even if the masses don't have to accept it, the Aes Sedai are going to have a hard time with it.

The Tower basically abhors the idea of men channeling. Also there's the political fact that they'll lose their standing in the world if the Black Tower becomes politically equal to them. In time everyone will see that the taint is gone, but the Aes Sedai are still not going to accept male channelers as equal to Aes Sedai. The Tower sluts have been the only Aes Sedai in the past 3000 years, & sharing that status with a bunch of men will definitely weaken their influence.

Originally posted by Strabo
I think the Red Ajah, even if they are disbanded formally, are going to continue hunting male channelers. It may even be necessary. Even with the taint gone the insanity that was cause to males channeling before the taint was removed is still there. In the ranks of the Asha'men there is some insanity. The Red Ajah are going to continue with the men-hating ways and hunt down the thing they fear the most. In time they may adjust, or they may have to be forcefully put down. I think that if they don't adjust then the Ajah will end up being wiped out by the very male channelers that they are hunting.

Yep, the Red whores will still do what they're best at: men-hating & men-hunting. I think they should be sent to the Last Battle for convenient disposal. The insane Asha'man will die out in time, or be killed if they pose a problem. Taim has done that, & Rand has let it pass, since it's the pragmatic thing to do.

By the way, if I recall correctly, in the Age of Legends ajah referred to people who form a social group for a common reason, & disbanded once the business concerned was done. So I suppose the Red Ajah will be disbanded, 1 way or another, since there's no reason to gentle anyone now. But the others will probably still be around, except maybe the Green. If the resealing of the Dark one's prison went well, the Green Ajah is no longer needed, & they'll probably be absorbed into their traditional ally, the Blue Ajah.

[Hank]

About the greens not fighting the last battle, I believe Vanidar was referring to Rand's phobia about women dying for him ie Maidens of the Spear. Rand would try to find some way to prevent them from joining the fray.

[Tinkers Sword]

The Tower cannot survive with its current structures in place, it is going to require serious reformation.

Think about who and what have links to the tower at the minute - An ajah that no longer has a specific purpose the Red Ajah, the Greens will also have no purpose after TG and its effects settle down, the Kin who have a lot they can teach the "real" Aes Sedai and visa versa, also the Wind Finders, the Ash'aman, the Wise Ones are all goning to have links to the Tower.

I can however see Egwene uniting all of the above party's, but I think its gonig to take the Last Battle to give them a good kick up the hole.

[balefire]

Originally posted by Hank
I believe Vanidar was referring to Rand's phobia about women dying for him ie Maidens of the Spear. Rand would try to find some way to prevent them from joining the fray.

It's that stupid principle that allowed Lanfear to get the upper hand & resulted in Moiraine's sacrifice. This "I can't hurt women" attitude can be a major stumbling block (see Batman & Catwoman).

If Rand tries to stop the Maidens from fighting, they'll simply go "Far Dareis Mai carries the honor of the Car'a'carn" until he gives in.

Originally posted by Tinkers Sword
The Tower cannot survive with its current structures in place, it is going to require serious reformation.

Think about who and what have links to the tower at the minute - An ajah that no longer has a specific purpose the Red Ajah, the Greens will also have no purpose after TG and its effects settle down, the Kin who have a lot they can teach the "real" Aes Sedai and visa versa, also the Wind Finders, the Ash'aman, the Wise Ones are all goning to have links to the Tower.

I can however see Egwene uniting all of the above party's, but I think its gonig to take the Last Battle to give them a good kick up the hole.

Under Egwene the Tower will be strong & whole again, but I don't think everyone will simply flock to the Tower. The Wise Ones & Windfinders will still be independent, the Kin will probably become Aes Sedai, the Reds don't exist in the Salidar faction, the Greens will be absorbed into Blue, but the Asha'man will still be wary of Aes Sedai. I doubt saidin & saidar will ever join hands.

[Vanidar]

Another factor to consider is the scale of TG. If only a remnant of a remnant of the Aiel is going to be left, I would imagine the "civilians", i.e. peasants and villagers from the various kingdoms of Randland, will be high as well. Innocents caught up in a cataclysm rarely fare well. Among the combatants, the death toll will probably be enormous. This is absolutely a fight to the death, no quarter. To hunt down and wipe out the various creatures and agents of the DL is going to take serious doing. Your commen pikemen and the less powerful channelers will also die in droves under the massed power of the DL's goons. I think the relatively few survivors will be so humbled by the experience, so shaken, that they would go back to being true servants of all. I got something else I'm gonna put out on a new thread. Don't want to take another tangent.

:eek:

[balefire]

Originally posted by Vanidar
I think the relatively few survivors will be so humbled by the experience, so shaken, that they would go back to being true servants of all.

I doubt it, Aes Sedai being what they are. After they've recovered from the shock & are in the process of slowly rebuilding the world, the Tower will take the chance to establish some control over Randland.

[Dancing_Dead]

As I recall, the Red Ajah has another purpose - one most people forget about. The Red Ajah's original purpose was to be an "inquisition" or sorts to hunt down Darkfriends. The Reds were allowed to do things other Ajahs weren't, and they were more feared than respected. This is evidenced by... what's her name? Damnit, I'm rereading the series and now I can't remember her name. The Red who becomes head of the traditionalistic white tower... Damnit!

Well, anyway. She never gave a damn about hunting men. As I recall, she took the Red because her parents were killed by Darkfriends and she wanted to be able to kill them.

My point - lost as it may be - was that the Red Ajah will probably return to its original purpose. Maybe then they'll be allowed to have warders, hm?

[balefire]

Originally posted by Dancing_Dead
As I recall, the Red Ajah has another purpose - one most people forget about. The Red Ajah's original purpose was to be an "inquisition" or sorts to hunt down Darkfriends. The Reds were allowed to do things other Ajahs weren't, and they were more feared than respected. This is evidenced by... what's her name? Damnit, I'm rereading the series and now I can't remember her name. The Red who becomes head of the traditionalistic white tower... Damnit!

Well, anyway. She never gave a damn about hunting men. As I recall, she took the Red because her parents were killed by Darkfriends and she wanted to be able to kill them.

My point - lost as it may be - was that the Red Ajah will probably return to its original purpose. Maybe then they'll be allowed to have warders, hm?

Were the Reds allowed to do things other Ajahs can't? I don't remember reading that. Anyway, I doubt they'll have Warders, since that's the way they've been for 3000 years. In any case, the other Ajahs can do whatever the Reds were supposed to, namely hunt Darkfriends & generally keep the Tower running & the world reasonably stable. Of course the Greys are probably better at keeping the world largely balanced.

[Pope Trevor]

The reds probably wouldn't have warder's anyway, 'cause the majority of darkfriends are men.....

So they'll probably retain their hatred for men, even if they can channel safely

[balefire]

Originally posted by Pope Trevor
the majority of darkfriends are men.....

What gave you that idea?

[flyingdutchman]

let's face it, guys
they think we're all evil!
damn us for ever allowing feminism!

[Dancing_Dead]

Let me clarify: The Reds can do more becuase everyone's scared of them.

[balefire]

Originally posted by flyingdutchman
let's face it, guys
they think we're all evil!
damn us for ever allowing feminism!
Aes Sedai generally have a low opinion of men who can channel, especially the Reds (the snakes in human skin!!) & we know in Randland women generally have more power than on Earth because of the fact that before Rand came along all channelers were female. Burn the Tower to the Pit of Doom! My ultimate WOT fantasy is to have all Ass bitchin' Sedai to be stripped, whipped with nettles, made to wear poison ivy & run 13 laps round Tar Valon with Asha'man channeling Draghkar droppings on them. Then they'll be sent off to the Blight as battle fodder & whoever survives the experience will be personally stilled by an Asha'man & balefired. Mwahahaha!!!

Originally posted by Dancing_Dead
Let me clarify: The Reds can do more becuase everyone's scared of them.

No more than they're scared of other Tar Valon bitches. But overall the Red whores have a worse reputation because of their anti-male stance. The best Ajah, in my opinion, is the Yellow, because Healing is the most beneficial thing you can do with the Power. Given a choice, I prefer to disband all Ajahs after the Last Battle but leave Yellow intact, with Nynaeve as head.

[Pope Trevor]

The majority of darkfriends are men. It says somewhere that men are more willing to swear to the shawdow.... 'course that was about Greymen, but i'd imagine it'd hold true for darkfriends.

plus only a few darkfriends have been women (four or five, I think). And there are more male forsaken.... So it would seem that more men swear to the shadow.

And BF, it that's your ultimate fantisy..... dude, you got some work to do.....;)

[balefire]

Originally posted by Pope Trevor
The majority of darkfriends are men. It says somewhere that men are more willing to swear to the shawdow.... 'course that was about Greymen, but i'd imagine it'd hold true for darkfriends.

plus only a few darkfriends have been women (four or five, I think). And there are more male forsaken.... So it would seem that more men swear to the shadow.

I suppose it has to do with the fact that men are more power-oriented, & the Dark One promises eternal life & power for service.

Originally posted by Pope Trevor
And BF, it that's your ultimate fantisy..... dude, you got some work to do.....;)

If you can think of worse ie. more humiliating & degrading things to do to Ass Sedai, I'm willing to listen.

[Mann]

Each AS does the work of all the Ajah according to her talents and predelictions. The Ajah they're in is only the main drive. So it's more than feasable to have the reds hunt darfriends and BA. It's what I think they'll end up doing, but it was never their original creed.

[balefire]

Originally posted by Mann
Each AS does the work of all the Ajah according to her talents and predelictions. The Ajah they're in is only the main drive. So it's more than feasable to have the reds hunt darfriends and BA. It's what I think they'll end up doing, but it was never their original creed.

Greens & Blues can do that too. Of course Greens will probably be absorbed into Blue. (Cyan Ajah? :D )Reds are unnecessary since men who can channel are now safe, at least as much as any Aes Sedai can be called "safe". Whites are an irrelevance since they don't care what happens in the world, the Browns being a bit like that too. Greys wil probably end up meddling with world affairs as they've always done. Yellows can go back to what they do best: Healing. We need them for cancer, AIDS & heart attacks.

[Mann]

It's not that whites don't care but that they see things in terms of philosophy and meanings, which fudges the issues. the blues are politically orientated where the greens are hands on, i just can't see them getting melded into one Ajah. Especially since the blues causes aren't necessarilly about fighting the DO (ie political influence of the wT of factions within the WT). Politically the Reds are to idealogically opposed to the other Ajah (as are they all to each other), to quietly disband, where the hunting of darkfriends is a fairly close ideology to that they already espouse. The greens are to caught up in conflicts and areto temperamental to be objective in this, and the blues have other ajendas.

[balefire]

Originally posted by Mann
It's not that whites don't care but that they see things in terms of philosophy and meanings, which fudges the issues. the blues are politically orientated where the greens are hands on, i just can't see them getting melded into one Ajah. Especially since the blues causes aren't necessarilly about fighting the DO (ie political influence of the wT of factions within the WT). Politically the Reds are to idealogically opposed to the other Ajah (as are they all to each other), to quietly disband, where the hunting of darkfriends is a fairly close ideology to that they already espouse. The greens are to caught up in conflicts and areto temperamental to be objective in this, and the blues have other ajendas.

The White bloody Tower doesn't really care for the world, they just want to be in control. I don't know if the Ajahs will be melded into 1 Tower Ajah, maybe Egwene can do that, or maybe she would have to leave things as they traditionally have been, except that there'll be no Red Ajah. I was simply pointing out the redundancies of certain Ajahs, not that they will be disbanded.

[MikeRules311]

The Reds will never be convinced that the male half of the source has been cleansed of the taint. They will continue to hunt down men who can channel until there is a major confrontation between men and women. My question is wether the other Ajahs will support the reds or the men

[Mann]

Or stay neutral until the victor is obvious.