Corianin Nedeal Theory

[Priest]

I am new to this board and this is my first post but I think I may have stumbled across a some what out there theory about Corianin Nedeal, the last Aes Sedai dreamer before Egwene.

We know that she preformed extensive research with ter'angreal and one day was found burnt out after working with the ter'angreal. Because the Black Ajah took many ter'angreal that Corianin had worked with and knew what they did unlike any one else it is safe to assume that Corianin is also Black Ajah.

But how did she get burnt out? I do not think that she was burn out at all. I think she was using the ter-angreal to get into tel'aran'hriod and while she was there she managed to get stilled, probably by Ishmael or some other manner. It makes sense to me and would explain why she pretended that she did not remember any thing that happened.

[Berk]

First of all, Welcome.

Second, if she was Black, why would Ishy still her?

Even if she displeased him for some reason, he would more likely kill her than make her useless.

[Priest]

I picked Ishmael simply because he is the only one that could touch the world in some way while all the others we locked up. Of course it could have been anything, possible one of the wise one dream walkers. THey seemed to have comptent for Aes Sedai dream walkers when Amys met Egwene and she even seemed ammused. Maybe that is because they had hunted down and stilled the last one.

Come to think of it I think that fits a lot better then Ishmael.

[LaughingTurtle]

Hello! :)

But the fact is, what would be the motive for the Aiel Dream walkers to still her? The only thing i can think of is is punishment for an infringment on Rhuiden(sp) but the only problem with that is...You can't go there in tel'.

Hmmm, though Ishy is still probable...

[Jacob]

Hmm....could you give the reference to where it says' that Corianin Nedal ended up getting stilled? It *sort of* rings a bell, but then again, something ticks my head saying that it concerned some other Aes Sedai that ended up getting stilled. Or that Corianin wasn't really the dreamer? (why would she need the Ter'angreal if she was a dreamer?).

Either way. I think that Aes Sedai have lots of places where there are old information which only a few have access too. I.e. someone finds it, but then don't think that it should be shared. It might be that the BA had access to some of this concerning Corianin, maybe some of her own "unofficial" notes. I got the impression that e.g. Verin has a great deal of these kinds of notes stashed away that she isn't sharing. Maybe even some (papers about) dreams about the future (= last battle) that Corianin had had. Also, the shadow has always seen dreamers and the like (it seems) as a kind of danger, so maybe the reason that she can't remember is because it was the BA that arranged for an "accident" that burnt Corianin out. Or maybe she was put to the question by the BA (or such) after which she got stilled and had her memory erased about the incident with the power. Verin can do that. Hmm...how old is Verin anyway? How long ago did Corianin live...

[Priest]

She was not stilled...she was studdying some personal ter'angrael one night and the next day they found her burnt out from an experiment gone awry and she claimed she could not remember anything. After that no Aes Sedai after that dared touch any of her ter'angrael for fear they might trigger the same reaction. As to exactly where it is that would take a few eeks of re-reading every book which at the time i am not up too. Eventually I will or if some one else can find it, ti would be helpful.

[balefire]

Originally posted by Priest
I am new to this board and this is my first post but I think I may have stumbled across a some what out there theory about Corianin Nedeal, the last Aes Sedai dreamer before Egwene.

We know that she preformed extensive research with ter'angreal and one day was found burnt out after working with the ter'angreal. Because the Black Ajah took many ter'angreal that Corianin had worked with and knew what they did unlike any one else it is safe to assume that Corianin is also Black Ajah.

But how did she get burnt out? I do not think that she was burn out at all. I think she was using the ter-angreal to get into tel'aran'hriod and while she was there she managed to get stilled, probably by Ishmael or some other manner. It makes sense to me and would explain why she pretended that she did not remember any thing that happened.

If I get it right, those ter'angreal were meant for entry into Tel'aran'rhiod like the stone ring Elayne & Nynaeve had for a while. I don't think that makes Corianin Black Ajah. It may be she used the wrong ter'angreal ie. one that wasn't meant for Tel'aran'rhiod. There're similar ter'angreal in the Tower which the Aes Sedai found out the hard way.

I don't remember the burnt out part, maybe you got mixed up with other Aes Sedai (of course I could be wrong since I don't have the books).

Originally posted by Priest
She was not stilled...she was studying some personal ter'angreal one night and the next day they found her burnt out from an experiment gone awry and she claimed she could not remember anything. After that no Aes Sedai after that dared touch any of her ter'angreal for fear they might trigger the same reaction. As to exactly where it is that would take a few weeks of re-reading every book which at the time i am not up to. Eventually I will or if some one else can find it, ti would be helpful.
The Corianin Nedeal & Dreaming bit are 1st introduced to Egwene by Verin in book 3, I think the chapter called A World of Dreams. I remember that bit because I liked the Dreamworld concept.

[Priest]

It is not the fact that she entered tel'aran'rhiod but the fact that the Black Ajah knew exactly what every one the her ter'angrael did while even Verin had no idea. I think Corianin Nedeal must have left secret records of her findings to be passed down the generations of Black Ajah that reside int he tower.

[balefire]

Originally posted by Priest
It is not the fact that she entered tel'aran'rhiod but the fact that the Black Ajah knew exactly what every one the her ter'angrael did while even Verin had no idea. I think Corianin Nedeal must have left secret records of her findings to be passed down the generations of Black Ajah that reside int he tower.
Maybe, but I'm more inclined to think that Ishamael, being someone from the Age of Legends, knew what ter'angreal could access Tel'aran'rhiod & simply told the 13 Black Ajah in a dream.

[nightfairy]

No, I think the Black Ajah theory is a valid one. Or the BA could have just messed around with the items a bit.

What ever happened to Corianin anyway? Didnt she disappear or they found her mysteriously dead or something?

[Strabo]

I agree with the non-black ajah theory. I don't see why Corianin Nedeal would have to be Black Ajah for them to know what certain ter'angreal to do. The BA are in league with the Shadow, and the Shadow includes 13 people that have a lot more experiance with Ter'angreal than anyone else currently existing in Randland. They could have possibly recognized them, or recognized the type. I think Corianin was just a harmless researcher that ran across some bad luck. While future books may prove me wrong...it's been a while since I read the books but I don't recall a extensive description on what was in the notes that Egwene has...I don't see enough proof to say that she was BA.

[Priest]

These are not just a few ter'angreal in which a few of them happened to be used by Corianin. Every single ter'angrael that the black ajah stole was exclusively studied by Corianin AND ONLY corinanin. NO Aes Sedai had any idea what any of them did...they were all Corianin personal ter'angael to study for and in the log she sent the tower it claimed that she did not know what any of them did. Yet every single one of them had to do with dreaming. This is simply to large to be coincidence.

[Strabo]

Did all of them have to do with dreaming? I seem to recall a wand that spat out balefire. I suppose they could have had that before, but I thought they stole that when they stole all the other ones. Maybe Corianin didn't want other Aes Sedai tromping around TAR...Egwene wasn't too happy about it. Could even be that Corianin met some Aiel dreamwalkers and agreed to keep the ter'angreal a secret so that amateurs wouldn't be messing around in TAR and getting hurt. Keeping a secret from other Aes Sedai wouldn't make you BA...if so, then the entire White Tower might as been be dedicated to the Dark One. I agree it's strange that the BA knew what the ter'angreal did, but that doesn't necessarily mean that Corianin was working with them. She probably kept secret notes that someone found and passed on to the BA.

[Priest]

When the Aiel talked about the last dream walker they were very comtensous about her so i doubt the Aeil would trust her with any task. Also the Aes Sedai did not know Wise ones could channel let alone dream walk. I think that there is no way that the Aeil could have given Corianin a task.

I have not read the portion where egwene goes over the list of ter'angrael recently but the only ones from Corianin where the ones that no one knew what they did anymore. The Aes Sedai knew about the Bael fire wand but that was either the only one or one of a few. But all the ones from Corianin had to do with either getting into tel'aran'rhiod or something involving sleep like that trap that caught Faile. The Black Ajah obvisouly had good documentation abotu what they did and this could only have come from Corianin. As I said before I think it would be too large a coincidence that the Black Ajah happened to get a store of ter'angael with hidden abilities that all had to do with dreaming from Corianin.

Corianin obviously hid them for some reason because she was the a main ter'angael studier and must have discovered uses for countless other ones that the Aes Seadi know about. The fact that the only ones that were recorded no ability discovered were the ones the Black Ajah found and all had to do with dreaming is just too huge a coincidence.

But overal I want to thank the sceptics because with each new criticism i have managed to refine my theory so now it is a lot better then it was before.

[nightfairy]

Hmmmm.... I hesitate to mention this b/c it has been a while since I reread the series & maybe I'm totally off on this but...
Do we know for sure that the BA that stole all those ter'angreal knew what each of them did, or is it possible that they took them as an order & were trying to figure them out, or were just going to deliver them to whichever Forsaken they were working under?

[Jacob]

I think that you're right (in what you don't really say...), the Black sisters that stole those Ter'angreal didn't really know what all of them did. Maybe they were just instructed to take anything that Corianin Nedal had studid that might be related to dreaming? And maybe the reason was because the Forsaken doesn't like the thought of AS comming into the world of dreams where they could potentionally spy on the meetings between forsaken etc.

[balefire]

Originally posted by nightfairy
Hmmmm.... I hesitate to mention this b/c it has been a while since I reread the series & maybe I'm totally off on this but...
Do we know for sure that the BA that stole all those ter'angreal knew what each of them did, or is it possible that they took them as an order & were trying to figure them out, or were just going to deliver them to whichever Forsaken they were working under?

I haven't read the books in quite a while either, but I think they knew what the ter'angreal were for. There was the time Egwene/Elayne (can't remember which) went to the Stone in Tel'aran'rhiod & the 13 bitches were there, so it looks like they stole those dream ter'angreal for communication in Tel'aran'rhiod & they also knew that the black rod was meant to generate balefire.

[Priest]

Well everyone knew that the black rod made bael fire. IT was one of the few that had documented results from the ones that the BA stole.