Green Men

[Tinkers Sword]

Well everyboby, whats the craic? I'm a new lad but I'm wondering has anybody ever considered Perrin may evolve into a Green Man after the Last Battle or in some way instigate their rebirth. I vaguely remember a viewing or a dream that put this idea in my head.

[magatsu17]

Well, when they did the it back in the day they didn't change people into green man, they just made them. Beside he's a half human half wolf, changing him into a green man wouldn't fit the story to well.

[Ulk]

yeah, maybe if you could find this part that made you think that... otherwise, that just wouldnt make sense.

[QuirkyTemplate]

Maybe Loial (sp?), his trusty Ogier sidekick could get the treatment. A Loial Greeman would be pretty ginchy.

[flyingdutchman]

I suppose when things quiet down in randland, all the aliens will come back.

[Ulk]

maybe the DO is a little green man.. ~chuckles~ just with a big megaphone or something

[balefire]

Originally posted by magatsu17
Well, when they did the it back in the day they didn't change people into green man, they just made them. Beside he's a half human half wolf, changing him into a green man wouldn't fit the story too well.

Yup, the wolf thing is older than the Power, & the Nym were made with the Power. So I don't see how Perrin can become a Green Man or somehow bring them back, since no one knows how to make living creatures with the Power.

[flyingdutchman]

where does this 'making Nym with power' come from?

[Ulk]

the Guide

[Tinkers Sword]

I've found the viewing that put this radicle idea in my head (BTW I didn't realise the Nym were created using the Power)

Anyway the viewing occured in tEotW - in relation to Perrin Min sees 'a wolf, broken crown and trees flowering all around him'.

I accept that Perrin will not evlove into a Green Man. However Perrin has always had a mental conflict with the Way of the Leaf, so now I am assuming that after TG he will 'chose the Hammer' i.e. a peaceful life and either get so close to nature that he developes powers similar to the Oiger and Nym, find a Greenman!, find the Song or any other suggestions u might have!:confused:

[Tinkers Sword]

I know I'm clutching at straws here, but my head is cabbaged, I was on the beer last night and had a rake of drink :(

So com'on help me out here ;)

[Aldebaran]

It's too bad the aiel avoid Tinkers like the plague, else the clan chiefs/wise ones could recite the "lost song", courtesy of the third age vcr..i mean, the crystal pillar ter'angreal :D

[nightfairy]

The song thing has always made me a little batty. What was The Song? Who is going to rediscover The Song? Who will sing The Song? And how will the Tinkers recognize it as THE Song? :confused:

[Jacob]

Oh, many questions in one :-) Nah, Perrin will now evolve into a Green Man/Nym, that was just the beer you drank talking. But is the Green Man really dead? I remember Loial saying that something of the Green Man must have lived (in that tree that he became) since...errr...can't remember that bit, but something about the effect of Loials treesinging, that he wasn't THAT powerfull a treesinger and the effect (of his singing) wouldn't have been that great otherwise. So maybe something will come from that.

I don't think that there is a song, that's just something that got abit distorted over time. If you remember when we got to see through Rand's ancestors eyes, you remember the Aiel, Ogier and the Nym singing together to make things grow. But did WHAT they sung really matter? The Ogier has some capability to make things grow with their song, we know that, but does the words matter there? In the vision (I suppose you could call it that?), both Humans and Ogier sang, but it was the Nym that "took" that song and weaved together into something that made stuff grown. Maybe it was simply a matter of voices blended together in a certain way and katalysed through the Nym? Ah well, I don't know how it was done, but I don't think that there is any particular song. Who knows, maybe all the Tinkers will settle down in Two rivers. Or Ruidean. Or maybe some will and some won't. Hmm...

Oh yea, welcome about, TS, it's always good with new members and we need more Irish here. This is text only, of course, but I can still imagine how you sound saying "1/3" ~hehe~

[Aldebaran]

I don't think that the actual "song" matters as much as the ideal behind it.

The daishan split into many groups, all of which held on to some of their beliefs even now. The jenn aiel held on to the most, service to aes sedai, way of the leaf, etc. The aiel wont touch a sword/(wpns with no other purpose). The tinkers also hold onto way of the leaf, but in addition they search for the song, because it is a symbol of a world without violence, where harmony and cooperation between races and genders promoted growth.

The present day tinkers have most likely forgotten why they are even searching for the song, and I doubt they will recognize it, but they do need something to hold onto, something to give a meaning to their existence, and thus the ever continuing search for the song.

[Tinkers Sword]

I don't think you can dismiss the power of the "song" so easily, because it did have power and influence. Remember that during the Breaking the Aiel used thier song to hold back the maddness of a no. of Male Aes Sedai long enough that people could escape the cities under threat.

Another point, I may be way of the mark (so if u can clear it up for me please do) but weren't Aes Sedai part of the cicle of the song Channeling through the Aiel.

Anyway, all this still doesn't shed a lot of light on Min's Viewing.
I know I was away for a while but Christmas was mental, I'm only now regaining my sight!

[Mael]

Well, Green men were made with the power, granted, but more importantly, it was not really taking inaminmate things and making them animate, it was taking living plants and essentially combining them to form a nice symbiosis. So in theory, so long as there are plants, there will always be green men.

I do agree somewhat about the song being merely a theory, but I will point out that RJ often uses songs as inspirations to his characters, and one example in mind was when Rand viewed his past, the Aes Sedai commeneded the Dai'shan for locking arms and "singing" the rabid Male sedai into a submission until the others could get out. Granted the song did not really defeat him, but it shows exactly how much RJ believes a song can do.

It has been awhile since I read the books, so if I confused stuff, sorry!

[Mann]

Songs are used extensively in mythology particularly Norse and Celtic.

The AS didn't channel with the Aiel.

I think Perrin will bring Rand (who knows the song) together with the Tu'atha'an, and the treesingers, teaching them the song (possibly forcing the Aiel to capitulate). This could lead them on a dangerous quest into the blight to revive the spirit of the Greenman with the use of a ter'angreal (discovered amoungst the ones from the storehouse-a description tickles my memory but...), as the Nym were contsructs. None of this violates the Way of the Leaf, and provides an interesting plot twist where might of armsisn't the solution. Of course the timing's wrong for it to happen in the next book.

[Aldebaran]

I though perrin's stint as a green man was already done with :/

EotW, 293:

"Most of the branches fell away as he sat up in surprise, but some hung haphazardly from his shoulders, and even his head, making him appear something like a tree himself" <--- see!!!!!!!

[Mann]

LOL

[archely]

Originally posted by Mael

I do agree somewhat about the song being merely a theory, but I will point out that RJ often uses songs as inspirations to his characters, and one example in mind was when Rand viewed his past, the Aes Sedai commeneded the Dai'shan for locking arms and "singing" the rabid Male sedai into a submission until the others could get out. Granted the song did not really defeat him, but it shows exactly how much RJ believes a song can do.


If I recall correctly, the song did even more than that. I don't know if we are talking about the same place, but there was something described from the AoL when some town was taken over by some evil guy or other, and the people all joined arms and sang. The guy killed them all one by one, and listened to the last one for over an hour or something. When he finally did kill the last one, the entire place burned.

Anyone know the exact place?

[Mann]

One of the male AS who went mad, they sang and the people escaped.

[archely]

I don' t think that is what i'm thinking of mann.

[Buckweet]

I dont think the power was involved in the song. Isnt there like a saying or something that music taims even the wildest of the beasts??

[archely]

Originally posted by Buckweet
I dont think the power was involved in the song. Isnt there like a saying or something that music taims even the wildest of the beasts??

Umm, i'm not sure if this is directed at me or not......but I wasn't saying that i thought the power was involved, just that i remembered something like this. I wish i had my books.....

I'll get back to you when i can look this up....or someone could help me....

[Tinkers Sword]

If I recall correctly, the song did even more than that. I don't know if we are talking about the same place, but there was something described from the AoL when some town was taken over by some evil guy or other, and the people all joined arms and sang. The guy killed them all one by one, and listened to the last one for over an hour or something. When he finally did kill the last one, the entire place burned.

Ye ARE talking about the same event - your "evil guy" is an insane male Aes Sedai.

Read the chapter in FoH were Rand is in the columns of Ruidean ,looking through the eyes of his decendants, and all will come clear.

Also in this same chapther it describes a singing circle incl. Aielmen, Ogier & a Nym.

[archely]

Thanks for clearing that up TS. For some reason I thought the thing that caused the burning of the city was the last singing guy dying, through some mystical power of the song. Guess not though.