Question about the Snakes

[Hank]

Hello all!

Has anyone puzzled out what questions Rand and Moiraine asked the Snakes and what the answers might have been? I suspect one of Rand's was how to cleanse Saidin and another was either how to defeat the Dark One without dying or simply how to keep from dying in the end. I have no clue about Moiraine.

In a related note, since Rand did cleanse Saidin, what were the unintended consequences? Shadar Logoth and its evil is no longer there. Is this going to affect Padan Fain? Shadar seemed to be the new source of his evil.

[nightfairy]

I have always kind of assumed that at least one of the answers Moiraine got told her what to do to defeat Lanfear, or maybe just that Rand would never have the cajones to take out a female forsaken, and another had something to do with Thom, just based on the letter she left behind. Any other thoughts?

[Pope Trevor]

I'm still convinced that Mat heared Rand's answers in the Ter'thingy. To marry to Daughter of the Nine Moons, to Live and Die again, and to give up half the light of the world to save the other half.

I believe also that all three of them were told to go to Rhuidean, becasue they all did end up going there.

Perhaps, at the end of the conversation, when Mat hears them say "Go to Ruhidean, son of battles, trickster, and Gambler" maybe that is refering to all three of them that were in the Ter'thingy at the time

Mat=Gambler
Rand=Son of Battles
Moiraine=Trickster

[Jacob]

Originally posted by Hank
Hello all!

Has anyone puzzled out what questions Rand and Moiraine asked the Snakes and what the answers might have been? I suspect one of Rand's was how to cleanse Saidin and another was either how to defeat the Dark One without dying or simply how to keep from dying in the end. I have no clue about Moiraine.

In a related note, since Rand did cleanse Saidin, what were the unintended consequences? Shadar Logoth and its evil is no longer there. Is this going to affect Padan Fain? Shadar seemed to be the new source of his evil.

I think that you're probably right about the not dying bit for Rand. Or maybe if it was possible for Rand to survive the last battle (hence the answer: "To live, you must die"). I don't know if it concerned saidin, but we've certainly not had any hints in that direction. I don't know if there will be any unintended consequences with cleaning saidin.

Moiraine: I assume that one of her questions atleast involved Thom. I remember her saying to Thom that they would meet again and as she was Aes Sedai, he knew that she couldn't lie (so she said), bla bla bla...

Welcome a'board, Hank!

And Pope...I'd say that you're a fool for thinking that, Butt I'm an admin and some tend to take what I say to seriously sometimes, so I won't...
:-)

[Berk]

The bit about Moir seeing Thom again may have been from something in the doorway, or from something Min told her the one time we see them all together in Book 1. I lean toward the doorway answer myself, but it is not definite.

[Pope Trevor]

First off, I don't take a damn thing seriously, so your free to call me a fool.

It's your right to call me a fool, but someday you'll stop and think about what I said and relize your the fool.... i'm sure i'm right on this one.

Who's the more foolish, Jacob? The fool, or the fool who doesn't believe the fool when the fool's right. Or something like that.... i think

[magatsu17]

Actually the saying is"Who's the more foolish, The fool or the fool who listens to him" Obi Wan Kenobi.

anyway, Pope why would they call Moraine trixter, and why would they call Rand son of Battles when both of those names fit mat way better than they fit anyone else?

Naw dude i think your wrong about this one.

[Berk]

Actually, its:


Who's the more foolish? The fool or the fool who follows him?

[flyingdutchman]

good idea, let's start a star wars thread! NOT!:mad:

there are much better ways to waste thread space!

[Pope Trevor]

Yah, i know i misquoted the line. i did it on purpose

Trickster and Son of Battles do fit Mat better, but they CAN fit Rand and Moiraine

Rand could be the Son of Battles, 'cause he's the Dragon. There are a ton of names for the Dragon, Son of Battles might be one. I think Hawkwing might have called Rand something to the effect of Son of Battles, at the end of Book 2, but i'm not sure. so don't take my word.

Trickster could be Moiraine, because she is Aes Sedai. They are constantly referred to as tricksters.

And all three of them made the decision to go to Rhuidean after the visit to the ter.

Besides that, there were two ta'veran in the Ter, at the time. It is quite possible that something might have gone wrong.

Throughout the discussions of this, you all have ommitted one major point. NOBODY GETS MORE THAN THREE ANSWERS. Mat got six. And one of the last three answers he got was the same as Rand's. To live and Die again.

Not only that but Rand must "Bind the Nine Moons" to him. What better way than to marry the Daughter of the Nine Moons?

[Ulk]

what the hell? how did mat get 6 answers?

[Pope Trevor]

First, Mat got told to Rhuidean, then he was told that if he didn't he would die. Then he was told that he would die because he was sidestepping fate.

Those were his three answers.

After that, he kept demanding more answers, and finally somebody said that his fate was to Marry the daughter of the nine moons, die and live again, and to give up half the light of the world to save the other half.

Those were the extra three answers.

[Ulk]

oh yeah, we actually saw mat in there didnt we? holy shit its been a while since i read wot

[nightfairy]

ok, I'll admit its been awhile since I read the whole series for me too, so I might be off on this, but...
And one of the last three answers he got was the same as Rand's. To live and Die again.
I dont think Rand was ever told this, I think its just in the prophecies. I dont think we ever heard what answers Rand was given. If Rand wasnt told this, then Mat didnt hear one of Rand's answers.

[Pope Trevor]

At some point later in the series, Rand says, when talking to himself, that the snake people told him that he would live and die again. He says it in slightly different wording than Mat heard it in though.

[Hank]

Hello again. After Excite@Home died, I didnt have an internet connection for the last week. Imagine my surprise at how much discussion there was on this when I came back. Thanks, all.

Anyways, I dont think Mat heard the others answers. Seems to me that hearing what is reserved for someone else's ears would be just as against the rules as getting more than three questions. You can sorta force the extra answers onto Rand and Moiraine but they fit an awful lot easier with Mat. The Snakes get 'payment' by feeling emotions etc. I think that since Mat was ta'veren and they obviously were getting more 'payment' than normal by the way they were acting, perhaps they felt obliged to give him more reward since they were getting more out of it. Hence more answers.

Hopefully Moiraine will make an appearence again and we'll find out more about her. Remember, she fell into the doorway to the foxes. As much as Aes Sedai are known for negotiation, maybe she's still trying to negotiate an agreement with the foxes for her three 'wishes'. Maybe she's a hairless rug on their floor. Who knows. Maybe Thom will go to the foxes and one of his three 'wishes' will be to spin Moiraine back into the pattern. Viola, Thom pulls her out of the fire. Just rambling here.

[Tinkers Sword]

Just a small thing I noticed while reading tSR again -

When Mat is walking along the corridor in the snakes kip he looks thru' the window and sees 3 metal spires the curve toward each other and all 3 point to the same spot.

Does anybody have any idea what it is - it has the sound of a ter'angreal, maybe its the gateway to their world thats connected to the Tower of Gen'ji.

[baxts]

i know this thread aint bin talked on for a while but i just found it and had to add my pennys worth, first, if mat was to get extra answes coz hes taveren and all that, then rand should of gotten 8 or 10, being much greater taveren than mat is. i spose theres no mantion to say that he didnt, but surely we would have been told if he did!!??!! so i dont rekon he got extra answers coz hes taveren.

Im almost iinclined to go with popes theory, except for the fact that the snakes answers were not entirely random, they appeared to be directed very purposely at mat and mat only. i can see definitely how he coould of gotten rands answers, and how the extra three he got could very well be them, but they were too direct at mat i reckon

[NOuseFORaNAME]

Rand said he had a translator for him, Mat didn't. Mat didn't even realize that they(and him) were speaking in the old tongue. Now if Rand had his translator(assuming it was an extra Aelfinn, besides the 3 that were on their pedestals) then why would Mat hear Rand's supposed answers coming from one of the Aelfinns in front of him, and not this "translator" that Rand said he had? I don't know if that really made much sense, but think about this.... If Rand had a translator, that would mean one Aelfinn would speak in the old tongue and the other would repeat it for Rand, correct? Now if Mat heard Rand's answers, then he most likely would have heard them twice...once in the old tongue and then a second in the present tongue.

Also you have to remember that that place was going down the toilet with Rand and Mat both being there. Mat was refusing to leave until he got the answers he wanted. I doubt the Aelfinns ever encountered two ta'varens at once. They were panicking and gave him the answers to get him the hell out of there.

Now when you said the "go to Rhuidean son of battles" could be Rand, well.....they didn't tell Rand to go to Rhuidean.

[sven]

exactly Rand specificaly says to mat that they didn't tell him to go to rhuidean

[Amelia Sedai]

I thought that Moirane got her answer on how to solve the whole Lanfear problem when she went to Rhuidean. I thought it showed her 3 senarios on what could happen.

[NOuseFORaNAME]

Yeah, I think she did. Doesn't each woman that goes to Rhuidean for the first time see 3 different ways her life can go based on some desision(s)?(similar to the ter'angreal in the white tower to test for accepted) Obviously one of her answers with the snakes(Aelfinn) was to go to Rhuidean. The question was probably "How can I aid the Dragon to live to the last battle" or something similar(I think something like this was mentioned in one of the books). So the Aelfinn told her to go to Rhuidean.

[Beowulf]

at some point I hope we get complete flashbacks to what happened to moiraine during her time away.

[NOuseFORaNAME]

That would be pretty rad. I want to know more about the Aelfinn, Eelfinn's world.

[epiph]

we'll probably find out about that when thom rescues her.