Mat associated Q's

[Archbishop]

1) Will Tylin and/or Suroth get offed by the Seekers as a result of his "abduction" of the DotNM?

2) How will his marriage take place? Apparently, Tuon knows its coming, but will it be according to Seanchan or Two Rivers tradition.

and lastly,

3) How many more f'n books before he gets back to the Band and recommences kicking some buttocks?

[TimGoldenboots]

1) Will Tylin and/or Suroth get offed by the Seekers as a result of his "abduction" of the DotNM?

If Anath is Semihrage, I think that the Seekers will be the least of Suroth's problems.

2) How will his marriage take place? Apparently, Tuon knows its coming, but will it be according to Seanchan or Two Rivers tradition.

I can't see it happening for a couple of books however it happens, but it will more likely be a Seanchan ceramony since it will need to be official for it to make Mat a member of "The Blood"

3) How many more f'n books before he gets back to the Band and recommences kicking some buttocks?

If I remember right, when Eg & co jumped through the gateway to head to TV Land, the Band had already started heading back towards Ebou Dar to catch up with Mat. They will probably run into eachother in the next book.

[Jacob]

Originally posted by Archbishop
1) Will Tylin and/or Suroth get offed by the Seekers as a result of his "abduction" of the DotNM?

Not sure. But maybe the seekers (one atleast) already knows something of Tuon's plans? Maybe Tuon had actually _planned_ to get kidnapped by Mat (or similar) in order to be "presented" to the Dragon Reborn? Suroth being offed would be a bonus I think, but I also think that she's be around to create alot more trouble.


Anyway, like Tim said, a Anath/SemiRage in FullRage is probably more to worry about! And if Anath/Semirage manages to join up with our heros while keeping her guise, she may come in a possion to threaten Rand.

2) How will his marriage take place? Apparently, Tuon knows its coming, but will it be according to Seanchan or Two Rivers tradition.

Aiel costoms, with Ogier gardeners playing the part of Tuon's 100 relatives.


and lastly,

3) How many more f'n books before he gets back to the Band and recommences kicking some buttocks?

It'll start happening in the next book.

[QuirkyTemplate]

I'll tell you one thing. Matt's going to have some fun facing off with that Golem in the future. Is anyone else hyped up for that fight?

[magatsu17]

I more hyped to see a fight between Shaidar Harun and Rand, I can't wait till Rand kick's his ass, also Perrins fight with Isan/Luc, that's gonna be a cool fight aswell, but Golem vs Mat is also gonna be a good fight.

[QuirkyTemplate]

Yeah, I'd like to see how Rand is gonna pull that off.

[magatsu17]

By the way QT, where in Ohio are your from? I was born in Columbus Go Buckeyes

[QuirkyTemplate]

I'm from Cincinati.



... whoday? whoday? whoday think they gonna beat them Bengals?

[magatsu17]

Cincy is in da house.

I just proud that both Pro teams in Ohio are representing this year. The Bengles and the Browns. Plus Ohio State got rid of John Cooper. Now if we could just beat Michigan this year it would be the Icing on the cake.

[QuirkyTemplate]

I hear ya, and if the Bengals can beat the Ravens, then maybe OSU can slam Michigan.

[nightfairy]

wow, fellow Ohioans! I was born in Cleveland, my dad used to be a professor at Kent State (yes, he was there for the massacre). Its weird the types of people Ohio puts out, for a military state. :)

[QuirkyTemplate]

We don't take kindly to Cleveland in these parts pilgrim.


...actually we do, I just had to throw that John Wayne bit in there. I dig the song that goes along with that massacre. You know ... it's like "4 dead in Ohio" or something. It gets you thinking about how crazy the politics were back then.

[Pope Trevor]

To get back to the original part of this stream, Mat will not, ever,marry the daughter of the Nine moons.

you may all think i'm crazy, but Rand will marry her

here's the proof:

1. Mat hates her, and all nobles
2. it is too obvious for something RJ would write
3. Tuon says that she must get close to Rand, and that she can be dangerous to Rand, and that the profeicies say that he must kneel before the throne of the nine moons
4. most importantly, when Mat hears his answers in the Ter'angreal in Tear, in the Shawdow Rising, he gets six answer, instead of three. in reality, the last three were Rand's answers (to die and live again, to marry the daughter of nine moons, and to give up half the light of the world to save the world)

[magatsu17]

Dude you know what those finn say is alway's true, and they said Mat will marry the DotNM i don't see how that's even debatable,

[Jacob]

I don't think that you're crazy, Pope. I do think that you're wrong though. Mat doesn't hate Tuon. In winters heart, I think that we could quite clearly see how Mat warmed up to her (sorto). He thought that she was pretty e.g. Of course, she did beat the crapp out of him, but I think that Mat is the kind of man that respect that kind of strength that she has shown. He wouldn't like a woman to be all "soft and tender", I think. And don't you think that Tuon has shown a fascination with Mat that implies some intrest on her part.

Also, the points you make lastly have the strongest pieces of evidence attatched to them pointing towards that they really do refer to Mat. Mat did live and die, to live once more as part of what was (his memories). Love often starts with fights...he's sure got THAT going with Tuon. Half the light of the world, now that's more tricky. One part is the dream that Egwene has where we are shown with blood running down his face (eye socket...), having lost one eye. "half the light"?. One more interpretation is also related to a dream that Egwene had, where Mat sits on a hill watching a fireworks display. In the middle of this display, Mat's hand shoots out and he grabs one of the fireworks and Egwene get's a feeling of horror. Men would die because of this, the world would change because of this. What I get from this is that Mat is on his way to invent fire arms (more evidence given in WH) and a symbolic interpretation of this has been that by doing that, it's like "giving up half the light of the world". A lot of People will die because of the invention of fire arms, but it is nessesary in order to save the world from the dark ones forces.

Lastly....

Welcome aboard, Pope. Is that your real name or a nick, btw? If it's your real name it's rather a nifty name.

[Pope Trevor]

Good point about Mat inventing firearms, never even thought of that...

but more importantly, Mat will not marry Tuon. I am sure that Mat heard Rand's answers in the Ter'angreal.

First, it is entirely possible that Mat heard Rand's answers because there were two Ta'veran in the Ter'angreal. Moirane said that anything could happen, because it has never been done. since the place was collapsing, it is quite possible that Mat could heard Rand's answers

Many times it is stressed that anybody going into the Ter'angreal will only get three answers. mat got six answers.

as for what the answers were, they seem to refer more to Rand than to Mat. just becuase Mat has memories of other people, doesn't mean his has died and lived agian. rand will die and live again, because he is a represenation of Christ (see the "Rand is the Creator" strain for my reasons why). the most important part of Christ is the resurrection.

as for giving up half the light of the world, to save the other half, i don't see how mat inventing firearms will save half the light of the world, though it may give up half the light. Rand, however, has a great possibilty to give up half the light, in the last battle. it is state severls time that he will have to kill a lot of people to win the last battle

one of the profecies says that Rand must "Bind the Nine Moons". What better way than to marry the daughter of the nine moons?

and finnally, the name is because if I am ever the ruler of some country I would declare myself Pope. hence the name "Pope" trevor

[Mann]

I think we have a troll, how droll.

[Elspeth]

I think Mat heard his own answers in the ter'angreal. Why

1) To die and live again as a part of what once was.
The "being hung/CPR" part in Rhuidean, the memories.

2) To give up half the light of the world to save the world.
Mat is going to lose an eye. Not only does Egwene have that dream where bloods running down his face, but Min has a viewing about him that involves an eye on a balance scale.

Also, Mat's character is at least partly based on Odin from Norse mythology. He is hung from the tree of life to gain knowledge, just as Odin was, he has a spear with two Ravens and the words "thought" and "memory" on it wich could be an allusion to odin's two pet ravens Hughin and Munin (means "thought" and "memory") he wears a wide brimmed hat, something Odin also does, and he's a skilled general which goes with Odin's function as the god of war. And Odin, as all good mythology students know, eventually sacrafices one of his eyes.

Plus, Rand can't marry Tuon. Can you honestly see Elayne, Aviendha, and Min letting that happen? (especially now that Elayne's pregnant--now he has to marry her).

[Jacob]

Hmm....hanging from the tree was to gain the knowlege of Runes, wasn't it? The eye was the price Oden had to pay to drink from the well of wisdom. And wasn't Tyr the God of War?

Other than that...I've seen your posts on wota on these reference type thingy's and it's good ~nods~

And in case Pope read's this too:

one of the profecies says that Rand must "Bind the Nine Moons". What better way than to marry the daughter of the nine moons?

(my responce)
Tsk tsk....it's blindingly obvious ~nods~. What do we know that can bind a man and a woman (who can both channel) together? That's right, the "male a'dam" that Nynaeve and Elayne found in Tanchico. Where is this a'dam now? Yep yep, it's in Seanchan hands! In WHOSE Seanchan hands? You guessed it again, it's Tuon that's got it! Remember Ananth/Semirage telling Tuon that she had to get close to the Dragon roborn? Why? To snap that A'dam around his neck of course! We already know that Tuon can channel/is a Sul'dam.

So, with this information in hand you may ask: How they heck would Rand bind the nine moon's to serve him?! It sounds more like it would be the other way around! Yes...and Tuon probably believes the same thing. But we know something more about this A'dam (curtesy of Moghediens flapping tungue): After a while, controll becomes a strugle where the male may also succeed in controlling the woman leashed to him. So it commes down to will then. Do you think that Tuon has a stronger will than Rand??

They will of course have to reach some sort of agreement eventually, as I can't see Rand wanting to keep being linked to Tuon indefenitely (especially not with a collar aroudn his neck). And they need some sort of agreement because the way the Male A'dam works, both need the other to be released.

TaTa!!

[Pope Trevor]

Jacob, you have an impressive ability to state the painfully obvious ;)

But it is too obvious. RJ is never comes out and says what going to happen like that. What you described would happen in a Terry Goodkind novel.

However, there is just enough evidence to connect Rand to marrying Tuon.

As to Rand actually doing it.... He might, if it was absolutely neccesary. The whole duty thing that he's real big on.

And what are the chances that Rand and Mat just happened to get the same answer in the ter. They were both told that they were "to die and live again". And I don't think that Mat's hanging counts as dying and living again. There is nothing to say that he was dead, when Rand rescued him.

[Jacob]

ROFL! There isn't a SHRED of "evidence" pointing towards Rand and Tuon marrying!

Originally posted by Poop Trevor
And what are the chances that Rand and Mat just happened to get the same answer in the ter. They were both told that they were "to die and live again".

In some cases, the chance would possebly be pretty good, what with both of them being Ta'veren and all. However...what evidence do you have to make you suggest that Rand was told that he was "to die and live again (as part of what was)"?? I've certainly seen none.


Oh, and you're pretty impressive too. There's just that special something about Canadians. :rolleyes: ~hehe~

[Pope Trevor]

One time when Rand's thinking to himself, he says that he was told he would live and die again. It was worded slightly different from what Mat heard, but that could be because of translation differences from the Old Toungue.

Even if i'm wrong about that, it still makes more sense for Rand to die and live again. Rand is a representation of Christ, and one of the most important parts about the life of jesus is the resurection.

Since Mat and Rand were both in the Ter at the same time, and they are so strongly ta'veran, it is possible that Mat heard Rand's answers. Once again, Mat got 6 answers, not three. And remeber, when mat was in there it was almost like the place was falling apart.

and he must bind the nine moons to him. As you said yourself, the thing with the A'dam is painfully obvious. And that's why I don't believe that it will happen. To me, it's just a false trail.

[nightfairy]

OK, for the record, I believe Mat just taverened his way to getting 6 answers. But just to play devil's advocate, we do know that there were 3 people in the doorway simultaneously. So isn't it possible they each wound up getting 4 answers? Moiraine certainly could have been told she would "die & live again" (I dont need to explain that, right?) Rand could give up 1/2 the light & Mat could marry DONM. Plus, if Mat was hearing Rand's answers, why didnt he hear Moiraine's answers too? And I know they are only supposed to give 3 answers, period, but RJ believes there's an exception to every rule, dont you think? (stilling cannot be healed, the whole Shadar Haran thing, the DO bringing people back from the dead - he breaks the rules of this world whenever the storyline calls for it.) And the snakey people wanted to get EVERYONE OUT immediately, so it's not SOOO far fetched that someone got an extra answer or two. It was self preservation, or something.

[balefire]

Originally posted by nightfairy
OK, for the record, I believe Mat just taverened his way to getting 6 answers. But just to play devil's advocate, we do know that there were 3 people in the doorway simultaneously. So isn't it possible they each wound up getting 4 answers? Moiraine certainly could have been told she would "die & live again" (I dont need to explain that, right?) Rand could give up 1/2 the light & Mat could marry DONM. Plus, if Mat was hearing Rand's answers, why didnt he hear Moiraine's answers too? And I know they are only supposed to give 3 answers, period, but RJ believes there's an exception to every rule, dont you think? (stilling cannot be healed, the whole Shadar Haran thing, the DO bringing people back from the dead - he breaks the rules of this world whenever the storyline calls for it.) And the snakey people wanted to get EVERYONE OUT immediately, so it's not SOOO far fetched that someone got an extra answer or two. It was self preservation, or something.

Yup, RJ has a habit of breaking his rules. Another example is the indestructibility of heartstone & the all-destroying power of balefire (what a bloody disappointment that some things are immune to balefire :rolleyes: )I think you're right about the ta'veren effect giving them more answers than they "deserve". They were supposed to have a private meeting with the 'Finn ie. although they were in Finnland all at the same time, they didn't see each other. I think the ta'veren effect distorted the Finn Pattern in some way & caused the answers to spill over to another person, that's why they heard each other's answers.

[Mann]

It said If he is to live he must die (Rand)

and they nearly destroyed the connection by being present together, aka the path between

[flyingdutchman]

That's right I read that one too. It's what moiraine said after they all got out in TDR.

[TheDude99]

Originally posted by TimGoldenboots
1) Will Tylin and/or Suroth get offed by the Seekers as a result of his "abduction" of the DotNM?

3) How many more f'n books before he gets back to the Band and recommences kicking some buttocks?

If I remember right, when Eg & co jumped through the gateway to head to TV Land, the Band had already started heading back towards Ebou Dar to catch up with Mat. They will probably run into eachother in the next book.

i don't think that the band is headed back to ebu dar... weren't they going to sit around murandy for that lord who wanted to become king or something? all the band had to do was sit there and pretend to be threatening and they'd get paid for it... with them doing that this lord would be able to unite murandy under him... so isn't that where the band is? sitting in murandy pretending the threaten the country side or something like that? but mat's going to be headed in that direction to get away from the seanchan, so he'll probably find them just as the murandians unite against the band and attack before they can get out of there(which goes against the original plan)

[Elayne Sedai]

I think that Mat, never heard Rands anwsers. Anyway didn't Rand say something about them telling him there was a way to cleanse Saidin? I think I remember a part of him hinting around about that. anyway RJ, does sometimes give us hints that are plan and simple to see, I just can't think of one right now! LOL!

[Buckweet]

No !!!'


rand will not marry the DotNM.... Mat will. Its obvious they will be getting all hot and sweaty with each other real soon.

With your logic that prophecy could have been meant for Moraine too...lol Yea I see that happening...A lesbian wedding between Moraine and Tuon LOL

ROFLMAO!!!

[Mann]

Pillowfriends.

[Urbal T]

Perhaps Rand needs to be taught by cadsuane how to laugh+cry before he will succeed w/ the male a'dam. And what were Mat's 6 answers? Didn't he ask three questions, get three answers, and then get a prophecy because the 'finn just gave him because of who he was, a prophecy that WASN'T part of the answers? Which book did that happen in, btw?

--Ted

[Mann]

tSR.

[Theoban]

I think that Rand needs to be taught to laugh and cry because he's being a bit of a prick at the moment. You need to be wholly human to be the champion of light after all.

[Mann]

Why?

[Maliki]

Ok, lets look at this from a logical point of view.....
--Rand didn't know that it was folling apart because he left before Mat did, and saw nothing strange about what happened.
--Moraine walked out and immeadiatly knew that they had been in there because she saw the damage inside. But we don't know what answers Moraine got or what she heard because she refused to tell them anything.
--We know that Mat recieved 6 answers (actually 7 if you read carefully) but the book Mat ignors some of them because they don't come from within the room. The 'Finn were speaking to him for his 3(4) but the others just seemed to come from thin air. (this was apparently done so the reader would have Mat and Rand's answers while at the same time know who's answers were who's)
--The reason both sets of answers were heard is because both Rand and Mat were both in there at the same time which was causing the magic to rip apart. The 'Finn even tell Mat to hurry because there are 2 (no mention of a third) of them at the same time.

Mat is to die and live again (the hanging was his death, Rand notes that Mat is not breathing before he starts CPR)

Mat is to Marry the DoTNM (which by the way would automatically make Mat the Emporer if Tuon's mother dies-- which would then bring the S into the fight on Rand's side of the battle)

And Mat is to lose half the light of the world to save the world (which could be a reference to Mat losing an eye, as is suggested by Min's vision and the dream)


As for Rand Binding the DoTNM, We have 2 traditional types of binding (marriage and just tying someone up) and since RJ is never traditional I think we can discount these 2. But we also have 3 other ways of "binding" in the books. 1) we have binding someone with air (my opinion- unlikely) 2) we have "being bound as a Warder" (unlikely -- Rand is already bound this way to 4 different ppl) and then 3) there is the Male adam which can be used to "bind" (and as it is an obvious plot point -- otherwise why bring it up so often-- I think this is the type of binding we will see)

[Kiri]

Hey Maliki. How many times have you read the WOT series to even quote all that stuff?

I'm definitely with you...Mat is obviously going to marry the DOTNM and it's most likely going to occur on Seanchan lands, as no one from the original band, except for Rand has been there.

Otherwise why would RJ talk about the lands, the people and the customs so much? He's put more effort into creating the Seanchan people than he has Shand. However Shand and the Shandanese people will also obviously take a greater role in the future.

We all know Moiraine is going to return. But how? Will she be released, or will someone rescue her? Could it be Tom? There's obviously a love interest and pretty strong connection there. For what reason does Moiraine return? What role does she yet to play in saving the world and helping Rand to over come the male a'dam.

Cheers from down under.....