Does anyone else HATE Faile??

[Litefoot]

Picked up the first book in WOT series earlier this year, and now completely hooked. Busy at uni, but still managing to read a bit of Lord of Chaos here and there.

I guess most of you have already read all the available books, but I can only comment on what I have read already. (up to book 6)

I mainly wanted to ask whether anyone else truely disliked Faile as a character.??I have NEVER liked her, at all. Even when we first met her, I just KNEW she was going to be a mainstay character, and it pissed me off no end. At that stage, Perrin was actually my fav. character (though now I like Rand more) and it seemed to me that as soon as Faile appeared, Perrin became second to her in every way. Faile's opinion seems to be more important than his, and his character development has been severely hampered as a result of his association with Faile.

Besides, Faile treats him very badly, is always thinking of herself, and only comes over all soppy at times to make sure Perrin is firmly under her thumb.

Yes, I don't like Faile. Hope she gets dealt with in a particularly nasty way in later books.

[Jean]

I do think Faile has Perrin whipped, but she's not THAT bad. I think it's just part of being Saldean to act that way.

Also, walking naked through freezing snow is punishment enough for any bitchiness.

Oop! Forgot to say welcome to the forum. :D

[JoJo]

welcome, litefoot.

i agree with you, man. perrin used to be my favorite character...until he got married. this was supposed to be a bachelor's paradise, damnit!

i wont spoil the series for you, but something tells me you will like the end of book 8 (The Path of Daggers)....

[nato]

well...when Faile was first encountered, it seemed like she could be cool, I thought. But I soon learned different. She's the least likable character of every single character in WoT. Liandrin(uh, I think I got the name right) was more likable than her. Perrin used to be my favorite as well, but now Mat is. That may have happened anyway, but Faile didn't help.

[Min Farshaw]

Can't stand her personality... bitch bitch bitch :mad: But i have a grudging respect for her intelligence (though i <b>really</b> hate to admit it)

[Litefoot]

Thanks guys, for welcoming me to the board. I have to rely on the local library for my reading material, so it's taken me months to get hold of WOT books - otherwise I would have read them all by now.

Definately like this board above all the others I checked out on my way here.

[Jacob]

Thanks, Litefoot, we do all try to make this a good place to hang out at:)

Faile isn't the most likable character out there, I'll give you that. But I think a part of the reason for that is Perrin's behaviour+Saldaean culture. Faile does show a heavy dose of bitchiness, but after having read Path of Daggers and Winters heart, I do like Faile alot better...and actions in these books actually take away some of her bitchiness, I think:)

Also, partly on topic (nah), there is an email published at http://www.stonedog.org/wot/letter_humor.htm that is one of the most funny things I've ever seen. Fun for all!

[GWINNA]

I like faile. :mad:
BTW, I'm back a colledge now, and at t3:D

[plummer]

Wow! I didn't know anyone liked Faile. If it wasn't for the fact that Perrin would probably get all moping and annoying, i'd hope that she gets killed off trying to escape from the Aiel. Though, i suppose i will admit she's slightly less annoying in the last book. But i don't think being Saldaean is any excuse for being annoying. Ah, well, most of the female characters in the books annoy me. I still love the series but most of them really, really need to chill out.

[magatsu17]

Faile while annoying isn't no more annoying than just about every other female chatacter in the series. I don't know if it's just me but when i got book 7, 8, and 9 I skipped all the female parts and just read about Rand, Mat, and Perin. It wasn't until rereads that I read the female parts.

The women aren't bad but the male characters are so much better and they are more important to the over all story thatn the female characters.

[plummer]

Originally posted by magatsu17

The women aren't bad but the male characters are so much better and they are more important to the over all story thatn the female characters.

Now, i've gotta disagree with you on your "more important" line. Yes, the whole thing revolves around Rand, and Mat and Perrin are tavaren, but you can't say that the female characters aren't important to the overall story! I'd say that all of the characters are so very inter-connected that you can't put one gender over the other.

[magatsu17]

Well I'm not trying to say that the female characters aren't important, I mean nobodies as important as Rand. He's the only one i really want to read about. Mat and Perrin and to bad but their secondary characters really, if really strong one but still secondary, Eqwene, Nyneve, and Elyane are like thirdary(I just made up a word:) ) and i would just get to the more important characters first. Plus except for Min and Birgette most of the female characters are much more annoying than that male characters

[Jean]

Originally posted by magatsu17
Well I'm not trying to say that the female characters aren't important, I mean nobodies as important as Rand. He's the only one i really want to read about. Mat and Perrin and to bad but their secondary characters really, if really strong one but still secondary, Eqwene, Nyneve, and Elyane are like thirdary(I just made up a word:) ) and i would just get to the more important characters first. Plus except for Min and Birgette most of the female characters are much more annoying than that male characters

I'll agree with you that Rand, Mat and Perrin are the most important characters, but without the women the story wouldn't be interesting at all. :)

As for the women being annoying...I think that has a lot to do with RJs portrail of women in WoT. I don't think he makes the women bitchy on purpose, but he sees that as them being "strong women." I've noticed that some male authors do that. They try to make their female characters strong, but it falls short and they sound bitchy.

[GWINNA]

I find that the women parts tend to be more interesting, very important to the story, and overall better sometimes.

[plummer]

I think you're right, Jean, that what Jordan and others are trying to do is make their female characters seem strong. Unfortunately that seems to involve walking all over the men when they can.

I personally have favorite scenes from the book from both male and female perspectives - does anyone else love that scene where Elayne finally snaps and tells those other Aes Sedai off in Ebou Dar? What ever she said about the slipper was classic!

[Jacob]

I agree with Jean. It seems like RJ's view of "strong" in women tends to be what most of the rest of the world classify as Bitchy. But I don't think that it was this bad earlier on. I liked the Nynaeve charecter best the way it was in tEotW for example. Strong, abit obstinate at times, but defenitely not bitchy. Now she seems to spend alot of time alternating between being mildly bitching and simpering. I have always liked the Moiraine character, which is also strong, human, not bitchy. I do have some hopes for the new Seanchan characters. Egeanin isn't totally new, but she's fairly unused so she's almost new, she's good. Tuon is new and she shows promise, I think. Her maid, Selucia seems like she may be a good character too:)

I do think that both the male and the femail characters play as important role in the story. Sure, Rand Mat and Perrin are those that (supposedly) are THE important ones for winning the last battle, but that's besides the point. A character may not be a "hero" at all, not important in any way to the outcome of whatever adventure is taking place and still be a very important character in the story. Some characters simply add that something to a story that makes it special. Sometimes through appearing in only a page or two.

[Litefoot]

Yeah,

It does seem like the women have a 'snitchyness' problem. I think RJ tried to make some of the guy's habits a bit annoying too, but it hasn't worked in the same way. Like Mat's complaining about everything he has to do, and the way Rand treats people sometimes when they are only trying to help. Somehow, you understand the guys better, know what they are feeling and can sympathise, whereas with the women, you get annoyed because they are being unreasonable.

You can have a 'strong' woman without having her being bitchy.
(just as you can have a strong man without having him uncaring or a bastard). You don't have to walk all over someone in order to command their respect. That's why I like the Aiel, the men and women work better together.

[Jean]

Of course you can have a strong woman without her being witchy. :) Though RJ seems to have a hard time actually doing that.

As you say, you can understand why Rand or Mat are in bad moods, but not the women. I think it's hard for male authors to "see" inside a woman's subcontious and make a certain mood understandable. Or rather, he tries and they still manage to come out a being annoying at times. I think that's the obvious reason the female characters actoins are seen as unreasonable, we don't understand WHY they do something, because neither does RJ! LOL! Who knows what's going on in a woman's head when she does something? :)

[JoJo]

the question is, does a <i>woman</i> know whats going on in a womens' heads? :D

[magatsu17]

I forgot Moraine she was never annoying but strong and proud. Her character was never a bitch. She definitely added a lot to the story overall. The thing that annoy's me the most about the female characters is that they have a tendency to whine, complain, and think that they are always right. They try to lord it over the men. My biggest example is in book 7. When Elayne say's that she hopes Mat doesn't corrupt the boy(refering to Beslan). Thom point's you the "the boy" is the same age as her. She and Nyneve think to themselves that every one knows that a man doesn't reach his full maturity until about 2 or 3 years after a women.

The most women in the series tend to over estimate their own abilities and under estimate their own abilities, This make them do stupid things. Plus some of the things that they do tend to be childish. Like in book seven with their round about apology to Mat who had saved their lives. Once they are able to get over some of their childishness they will become a lot less annoying.

[Jacob]

Originally posted by magatsu17
(snip - stuff) She and Nyneve think to themselves that every one knows that a man doesn't reach his full maturity until about 2 or 3 years after a women.



But that bit is true. ~s~

[magatsu17]

That's not true it's a generalization. Plus this statement being made by two of the most childish people in the series is really the problem

[Harun]

Originally posted by Jean


I'll agree with you that Rand, Mat and Perrin are the most important characters, but without the women the story wouldn't be interesting at all. :)

As for the women being annoying...I think that has a lot to do with RJs portrail of women in WoT. I don't think he makes the women bitchy on purpose, but he sees that as them being "strong women." I've noticed that some male authors do that. They try to make their female characters strong, but it falls short and they sound bitchy.

Which is somewhat par for course in our patriarchal society.

[GWINNA]

I don't think they are that bitchy I think some of you just feel threatened by them and your ego makes you say they are bitchy

[Ulk]

Originally posted by G.W.I.N.N.A
I don't think they are that bitchy I think some of you just feel threatened by them and your ego makes you say they are bitchy

~boos and hisses at GWINNA~ :p

[Alexia]

Women and men think the same - men just make more noise about being able to.
*wink*

[WolfBrother]

I think we should say that men and women can think the same. Because we usually don't. But do on occasion.

[Travis]

Of course we think the same......when it comes to chocolate!!!

[Simon]

I am soooo bored. But even tho I don't know ~why~ I'm answering this, I will anyway. :P ... I actually think Faile (getting back to the original question) is one of the most interesting supporting female characters .. definitely up there with Sorilea. Sorilea ~knows~ shit.

[Arawis]

i dont liek faile. i do liek sorilea tho. shes just cool :p

[Simon]

yeah, Sorilea rocks ... I think she hasn't been filled out properly yet as a character, but she's almost there .. with the whole .. whatshername .. the crazy old Aes Sedai with the things in her hair?, well, her and the whole teaching Rand stuff. v interesting that.

[Mandi Sedai]

I have to agree that almost all the woman in WoT are annoying! I just can't believe how they treat the men sometimes. How they think that they know what the man should do, and when it should happen. They seem to think that all men are stupid!

As for Faile, well, no I don't like her, but I dont' want to see her killed off either. Perrin loves her, and I like Perrin, so I wouldn't want him to have to go threw the pain of losing her. Faile is important to him....and that is all that matters. She is a real B*tch tho. *mutters* why can't a man like Perrin fall for a nice girl like me....
*smiles* LOL

[Amelia Sedai]

As the wise RJ once told me.....If there werent any strong women there wouldnt be any strong men. They would all be as limp as a salted pickle! His beard is so wise!

[supuradam]

i think rj is just some perverted masochist who tries to lives out his sexual fantasies vicariously through his characters.... but that's just me...

[Travis]

Personally, i like faile.

*waits for it*

[WFFS]

Ditto.

~defiantly stands next to Trav and waits for it~

[Amelia Sedai]

Gives Travis and WFFS hair toussels!

I like her too!

[Travis]

:toussel:

Hoy, i appreciate the thought, but do u know how hard it is to get knots outa this stuff??

:cry:

[Amelia Sedai]

Yes I do! Muahahahahaha!

[WFFS]

:toussel:

My hair is always tousseled :)
Don't know why ppl do it though.... :umm:

But, WOOHOO! Amelia is on our side :D

[Travis]

With her touselling hands from hell, we will overcome any lego army that attampts to smite us!! heh heh.



>=]

[Amelia Sedai]

excuse me I have the blessed hands of tousseling! Mike and LT say so!

[WFFS]

I was just about to say that :p
And you can toussel me anytime ;)

[Travis]

Yer, thats what i meant.....u kno.....but like......i said from hell, cuz they are mean and fast at what they do, wif a take no shit attitude, "bang", in and out, u kno.....but...they are still all blessed and stuff :blush:

[Amelia Sedai]

Originally posted by Travis
Yer, thats what i meant.....u kno.....but like......i said from hell, cuz they are mean and fast at what they do, wif a take no shit attitude, "bang", in and out, u kno.....but...they are still all blessed and stuff :blush:

hee hee hee hee hee hee hee

:blush:

hee hee hee hee hee hee hee

[Alexia]

Indeed, I would have to agree - I do like Faile.
*takes a place with Travis, WFFS and AS*

[Dhelvanen]

i dont mind faile that much....she is a strong character. but, as she is a woman, she is very hard to understand sometimes. and it seems that saldeans just do things differently, anyway.

as for the majority of the remaining female wot characters, they get on my nerves sometimes....but really the men and women both of the series have some serious issues with each other. they always think that their gender is right, and the other is just being obstinate and childish. the women in particular seem to think that the men would be completely helpless without them, and think purely with the hair on their chests. it's kind of annoying really...several things could've gone alot smoother if the men and women had just cooperated and worked together, instead of thinking that they had to do it all themselves. but i guess a conflict-free plot would be kind of boring........

[Travis]

But conflict free doesnt reflect reality, and thats one of the things i like about WoT, even tho its fantasy, u can still touch base with the humanistic characters.

pfft.

Men and women not fighting.

pfft.

[Amelia Sedai]

**picks a fight with Travis**

[Travis]

See, thats what im talkin bout!!

*gets amelia into a head lock*

*then looks at hulk hogan avatar and changes it to a leg lock ;)*

[Alexia]

*laughs and tackles Travis to the floor*
Off! Off!
*helps AS fight*

[Amelia Sedai]

Originally posted by Travis


*gets amelia into a head lock*

*then looks at hulk hogan avatar and changes it to a leg lock ;)*


ewwwwwwwwwwwww!

[epiph]

personally, i cannot stand faile. or berelain. or most of the female characters for that matter. sevanna is particularly irritating that the moment, and really, i could do without the entirety of the red ajah. yeah...and...yeah...i with moraine would come back. and i REALLY wish egwene and rand would freakin' talk!!! it would clear up SO much.

[Arsenic & Lace]

I don't mind the female characters, several of my favorite characters are female (Birgitte, Lanfear, Pre-married Nyneave). It's some of their outlooks on life that get to me. Whenever they make comments about all men being helpless, or when they refuse to ask men for help (Nyneave and Elayne ignore/avoid Mat in Ebou Dar, and when they finally ask him for help he finds the bowl and then he saves their lives. Again.)

There are two characters that I can not stand. Lately, Faile. She repeatedly gets pissed off at Perrin for things he knows nothing about, which is utterly ridiculous as all of her problems with him would be solved if she'd put forth any effort at all to communicate. But the antichrist is definately... (drumroll) Elayne. Elayne is the snobbiest, nose-up-in-the-air, self-righteous (insert expletive here) that I've ever had the misfortune to read about. Yes, yes, she's a queen. So what? Whats her face in Ebou Dar was a Queen, and she didn't have that "holier than thou" attitude. Rawwr. So yeah, Faile needs to learn to talk instead of sulk once in a while, and Elayne needs to realize she is not the light incarnate. The end.

[epiph]

here here!

[archely]

where??!!





ps - i think you mean "hear hear!"



pps - or it could be that i'm mistaken....




ppps- :p

[epiph]

no, you are entirely right. i realized that after pressing submit and was too lazy to edit it.

[archely]

well....i knew it all along...

~nods~

[epiph]

you have no idea how much it cost me to admit that...i hate being wrong so much.

[archely]

psst....just edit it...most people think i'm crazy anyway, so i'm sure they won't notice...

:D :p

[Travis]

I noticed!!!

*puts padlock on edit button*

[nightfairy]

I've said it before and I'll say it again. RJ's storyline / intertwining plots are utterly brilliant, but the characters are just too annoying for words, and all for the same bloody reason. They all need to get over themselves & talk. For the longest time I kept thinking, "oh, if only they had cellphones" but then they got the whole dreamwalking thing & they STILL dont tell each other anything. Its infuriating. *end rant*

[Travis]

Yer, thats sounds pretty accurate hey?
Too much plotting.

*is proud of nf for that nice theory*