lews therin not mad at all

[mierin]

I hope I am not going to offend anyone, now, :( but for some time I have been quite convinsed that Lews is not mad at all, and I am now trying to convince other crazy people out there.
First; try putting yourselves in his place; he is a very knowlegable man, perhaps the smartest man of his age, and he is trapped in the head of ... yes ... Rand. Yes, Lews may sound a tad mad now and then, and he is not very coherent, but tell me; would you try reasoning with a man in whose head you are currently finding yourself, when that man is obviously so mind-bogglingly stupid???
But all the hundred companions went mad, you may say. And so did LTT. Did he, or did he not kill Ilyena ++? He did, but if you remember, Ishamael healed him from the madness, just before he died.
Therefore, I think, we should perhaps pay more attention to what he actually says, and realise, amongst other things, that Taim is Demandred in disguise.
:D

[Jean]

Originally posted by mierin
I hope I am not going to offend anyone, now, :( but for some time I have been quite convinsed that Lews is not mad at all, and I am now trying to convince other crazy people out there.
First; try putting yourselves in his place; he is a very knowlegable man, perhaps the smartest man of his age, and he is trapped in the head of ... yes ... Rand. Yes, Lews may sound a tad mad now and then, and he is not very coherent, but tell me; would you try reasoning with a man in whose head you are currently finding yourself, when that man is obviously so mind-bogglingly stupid???
But all the hundred companions went mad, you may say. And so did LTT. Did he, or did he not kill Ilyena ++? He did, but if you remember, Ishamael healed him from the madness, just before he died.
Therefore, I think, we should perhaps pay more attention to what he actually says, and realise, amongst other things, that Taim is Demandred in disguise.
:D

He has to be a little mad, but also, he's still grieving Ilyena AND he's frustrated with Rand because LTT can't do anything, just yell at Rand and tell HIM what to do. Even if he is mad, some of the things he says do make sense. He's obviously right about Taim, Rand should kill him as soon as he can.

[Jacob]

I agree with what you say in part, Mierin (welcome to the forum btw:). Lews Therin isn't mad <i>from the taint</i> anymore. That was one of the very first things I ever posted, back on the old board at the .org (it's a good start), but I've never seen it posted anywhere since which I find abit strange. But I might just have missed it being posted, I guess. I am less sure about the Taimandred theory. It's been widely believed that Taim = Demandred while it's now divided up between believers and UnBelievers. Personally, I'm an unbeliever. Even before Winters Heart, where evidence seemed to point against the Taimandred theory, I felt that it was just TOO obvious to be true. That the Taimandred trail was a Red Herring.

One fact that we should perhaps remember regarding Lews Therin is that even though he was healed from his madness by Ishamael, Rand doesn't know this. Even is Lews Therin's state is due only to the loss of all he holds dear and the guilt of having killed his wife, he is still in full possession of his sences most of the time. He simply doesn't care about the world enough to try and help Rand maybe? Or maybe I should say that he doesn't care at all, except maybe for getting his revenge.

One thing that have just come to me: Maybe Lews Therin DOES care, maybe he is acting quite conciously from time to time even, with his sole goal being revenge. Revenge on the Shadow, but perhaps also in his hatred and bitterness, revenge on the world for having lost Illyena? If that are the case, then Rand should be very carefull about heeding Lews advise indeed, since Lews goal may not be only the end of the forsaken and the defeat of the DO, but also the end of the world.

[magatsu17]

Lews Therin is mad. Maybe not as mad as when he killed every member of his family, He has an awareness now of what he did and that's what makes him insane. But also what's up with Rand having skills Lews Therin had. Like the ability to draw and other things. I think this shows Rand is becomeing Lews Therin and when they said to live you must die, It's be Lews Therin who dies but Rand who still lives

[TimGoldenboots]

RJ has toned down the maddeness in LTT so it doesn't bog the story down, but next time you reread the series, count the number of times that LTT's feature has ended in his "Mad Ramblings". If the content of those ramblings had been fully explained it would have been confusing and bogged down the story. Not to mention all of the theory discussions that would have been wasting our time with trying to decypher it all. Sufice it to say, LTT is not as loopy as he was during the prologue of TEotW before Ishamael healed him, but he is still quite mad.

[Reuvyn]

i thought he was crazy
but now i'm having second thoughhts

i didnt find it so obvious that taim was demandred i never even thought it till i came here

[val7]

Even if taim isn't dem Rand should kill him.
Maybe LTT isn't mad from the taint anymore, but he definatly is insane. It might just come and go or something.

If YOU were the voice in somebody's head, wouldn't you think that person was crazy? Most people with voices in their heads are. *got really confused*

[Dashiva]

I feel that LTT is still quite mad. He has lucid moments where he can help Rand, but other than that, he's nuttier than a truckload of fruitcakes. Remember, Ishamael specifically said that he could only give him a few minutes of lucidity (I'd give the exact quote but someone has taken my copy of TEOTW from Pittsburgh to Georgia...grrr...). I also wonder if the toning down of LTT's madness is no toning down, but a by-product of Rand's continued exposure to both the man and the taint? Having to deal with a loony like LTT concurrently with having synapses turned into Jell-o by the taint of an evil Dark lord would have pretty much anyone reduced to gibbering idiot status in a short while. And remember, we only see LTT from Rand's POV, and often we dont know what he said, only its results.

[wingo]

I remember posting something that LTT had to be either a figment of Rand's imagination, something of the Dark one, acting crazy or not crazy at all - just Rand interpret's him to be (it is Rand's POV after all) because of the fact that he appears Mad but he was healed. However only two people know this - LTT and Ishmael. So it always puzzled me why he was mad in Rand's head. Of course i was flamed, but c'est la vie.

[Judas]

i think both lews therin and rand are mad. the only difference is the level of insanity. lews therin is loony toons, and the only reason he seems to be making more since is because rand is getting more loony everytime we turn around. normal people don't cry for no reason constantly, and most dead people don't have issues about being alive. yep, he's a wack job

[Theoban]

I don't think that Rand is necessarily mad. He's just a kid trying to juggle stuff that he doesn't understand. Being told at 18 that you are going to save the world, and probably die would screw anyone up. Anyway, to quote the Simpson's, maybe he's just a street smart fish out of water in a world he never made

[Kolo al'Jaden]

The questions is "Is Lew really mad?". Well I say yes. He is not mad because of the Taint that would normally drive him mad becasue he is dead. And lets face it... Dead men can't draw saddin. He is crazy because he is was in the realm of dead people with the Creator (heaven) the gets ripped out and thrown into Rands head because both are so strongly ta'veren that the are pulled to each other. If you were in Heaven with no problems, just chillen with the Creator then you got ripped out and back to reality and remembered that you killed everyone you ever loved and cared about then helped destroy the world you wouldn't be a tad bit loony? I think not.

[TimGoldenboots]

Is it really LTT? Or is Rand crazy?

I watched "A Beutiful Mind" this weekend and it got me to thinking... What if Rand is Skitzo and there is not LTT? A sign of the Taint that he is hearing voices. Voices that have tried to take control of his body... Sure the thoughts in LTT's head are real, but that is because of the way RJ allows people to remember their past lives under certain circumstances... Like Mat remembering things even before he went to Rhuidean...

So the memories are real, but the way Rand's taint warped mind processes those memories into a seperate voice that seems a logical companion to The Dragon Reborn... It even makes more sence to think about it this way considering that Rand is LTT reborn and they should not exist as seperate entities... one soul and one consciousness,,, not a seperate soul for each age...

[val7]

I saw that movie and it reminded me of rand/LTT too. What if Rand is locked up in some mental hospital and all the stuff he sees and does is fake?!?! :eek:

But seriously: either Rand is crazy and LTT is just a *normal* voice in his head, or LTT is really in his head. (I think LTT is real because if he wasn't and Rand was insane then Rand wouldn't be as cool anymore)

[Dhelvanen]

i think it would be safe to say that LTT is real simply based on the knowledge he has of the age of legends and of channeling. but what do i know?:)

[TimGoldenboots]

But remember that Mat had memories before he ever stepped foot into any twisted doorway... he was spouting Old Tongue...

The memories that LTT has are real, well some of them... I am not contesting that.... But if Rand is getting memories from the Age of Legends.... And We know he is going insane. A condition that has been known to cause voices in a person's head. According to Cadsuane it is common that male channelers hear voices as part of the maddness that eventually kills them...

The LTT is real theory has been based by overlooking the fact that Rand is Lew Therin... That is the whole premiss of rebirth... You are not 2 seperate people with 2 seperate consciounesses. If you overlook that then you can have room in Rand's head for 2 seperate people more similar to the Luc/Isam character...

[Lews Therin]

seeing as how i am the subject of this thread, I must tell you that i am not mad at all!! you are all insane!!!!! I MUST KILL YOU ALL!!!!

MUAHAHAHAHAAA

~~plots to kill all of the MAD people~~
~~laughs maniacally~~

--Lews Therin

[Lews Therin]

~~tries to revive this somewhat dead thread~~

:D

--Lews Therin

[Kolo al'Jaden]

But Mins veiwing said "Two men" that means two seperate entitys(sp) merge into one.. not two come from one.

[Kinslayer]

Min saw a viewing of Rand merging with someone else - he said its Lews Therin

[Sorrowmind]

It would make sense since Rand is LTT reincarnate... And, well I am not going to spoil you guys, those who haven't read Winter's Heart, but after what happened in Winter's Heart, I doubt Rand will go easily insane anymore.... What I think, Rand never was mad, he was closing the boundries of sane and insane though... What Min saw, was two man to merge, that would mean if LTT would become part Rand, it could make Rand fearsome opponent, since LTT knows how to use One Power, he and 100 other Male Aes Sedai were ones who sealed Dark One to his/hers/its dungeon. Like it was said in books. Basicly, if they merge, Rand could get LTT's knowledge about One Power... But Its only a theory... We'll have to wait next parts and read them ;)